Thoughts on Rum Rations & Field Smokers (From:

[OldSolduer]

Unfortunately, not everyone met those expectations... and now we all suffer for it.

We can look at it with rose coloured glasses all we like, some people, after consuming alcohol, cause problems. Would it be the end of the world if "smokers" came back? Probably not. Probably definitely not. Would there be more problems to deal with? Probably. Maybe not a lot, but definitely more problems to deal with.

Those people that cause problems - the National Defence Act should be brought to bear. If they continue to be jerks, then administrative action can be brought to bear.

But it's easier to ban things wholesale.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Much easier to invoke a blanket pre emptive group punishment than to go to the effort of dealing with shitheads individually.

 

[chrisf]

Edit: Whoops, misread what you meant, way off, no blanket parties, blanket as in all encompassing... but the point stands... stupid things happen when alcohol is involved... while you can deal with the individuals post-stupid, you can't un-do the stupid... even if it's only a few individuals among many, or even one individual among many, as per the "Strategic corporal" doctorine, we've got to remember, one person does something stupid, it comes back on all of us... it's just the risks you've got to be ready to take on if you're going to add alcohol... the vast majority of folks will act responsibly... but it only takes one to end up on the cover of a news paper...

 

[SeaKingTacco]

lol

Were drinking messes in the field really this common?  And 2 beers a day(or more), etc?  Do you think these are something that should be brought back on the month long exercises, etc?  Was there any resentment/animosity between groups(have, and have not's) as I assume not all units were able to have access to mess tents/ daily beers.  On a similar topic, what was the drinking policy on the tours in Cyprus and Bosnia? I remember hearing from some guys that at certain camps they were allowed 2 beers a night.

After some more thought on the subject/remembering more of the smokers I was in a few years ago, they were cool and informal(within reason) with certain parts of the CoC.  Are they required? Probably not(IMO) but still nice to have occasionally.

Up until and including RV 92, every time we went to the field long enough that a bivouac was required, drinking messes were set up as well.  You could drink as much (or as little) beer as you could afford, as long as you could perform your duty the next day.  I recall very, very few problems.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Edit: Whoops, misread what you meant, way off, no blanket parties, blanket as in all encompassing... but the point stands... stupid things happen when alcohol is involved... while you can deal with the individuals post-stupid, you can't un-do the stupid... even if it's only a few individuals among many, or even one individual among many, as per the "Strategic corporal" doctorine, we've got to remember, one person does something stupid, it comes back on all of us... it's just the risks you've got to be ready to take on if you're going to add alcohol... the vast majority of folks will act responsibly... but it only takes one to end up on the cover of a news paper...

The point was that we were several hundred kilometres away from anyone in the world who give enough of a shit to put us in the paper.  We worked hard, and we played hard, sometimes some eyes got blackened and a few noses got broken....a good many attitudes got much needed adjustment too.

 

[McG]

I have never been particularly inspired by the rum ration - mostly for the silly way in which I have seen the policy applied.  Everyone lines-up, signs for and receive the prescribed volume, drinks and goes away.  The smoker, on the other hand, is a great thing.  It allows for bonding and unwinding at mid or end exercise.

Perhaps it is time for the CFAO on the rum ration to be updated to the era of DAODs.  I believe the intent of the order is simply to identify the time and conditions for which the crown will cover the cost for a shot of alcohol, but I think it should be specifically expanded as rum and scotch rations.

 

[Tow Tripod]

Smokers were awesome when your 22 but now that I'm 43 I just want to leave the training area as soon as possible after any Exercise....

 

[George Wallace]

Smokers were awesome when your 22 but now that I'm 43 I just want to leave the training area as soon as possible after any Exercise....

You are only as old as you are mentally......Hope you aren't feeling like you're 80?    >

 

[my72jeep]

You are only as old as you are mentally......Hope you aren't feeling like you're 80?    >

Your only as old as the person your feeling.

 

[Tow Tripod]

43 in real life, 85 at work, 23 on vacation! That's the equation that is in current effect...

 

[SprCForr]

I left 1 CER for Germany in '88, and at that time full on end ex smokers were still in full effect.  In 4 CMBG full service drinking messes were almost the first thing set up and last to come down.  On return to 1 CER in 92, the fun police had a pretty firm choke hold on anything involving alcohol, a shock to me as we never got that memo in 4 CER.

'92 until the summer was great (Dick/Tom era). Then came Carmen...

 

[Kat Stevens]

I came back that summer, after a little junket to Croatia with 4 CER where, by the way, the odd beer was known to be consumed.

 

[OldSolduer]

I came back that summer, after a little junket to Croatia with 4 CER where, by the way, the odd beer was known to be consumed.

Same in 93. Then 1CMBG was commanded by a well known RCR General and all fun stopped, digging in commenced and "thou shalt wear issue kit only" orders started to appear.

 

[Kat Stevens]

*sidebar*  Anyone remember the 1 CMBG "J-J-J-Jimmy wants you" ego stroke poster from '94ish?  I was the AEV guy for it, they had us hanging out, all in issued gerar from head to toe, on High Butte for 4 hours waiting for his  Jimminess to show up.  When he did he was wearing Brit issued gloves, a Brit scarf, Belgian beret, and HiTec Magnum boots that none of us could ever hope to have.

 

[X Royal]

On a similar topic, what was the drinking policy on the tours in Cyprus and Bosnia? I remember hearing from some guys that at certain camps they were allowed 2 beers a night.

In Cyprus in 89/90 there were no limits on numbers of drinks.
Many consumed in the rooms, messes and at local bars.
IIRC correctly in the mess a beer was .10 of a Cyp. pound (22 cents). No limits.
At the Canex 1.20 Cyp. pounds ($2.64) per 24 case. No limit on purchases.
A 40 was 1.80 Cyp. pounds. One per week per person.
Very few even bought close to one a week. Personally I bought 4 bottles over 6 months, and two were for my leave period and one to bring home.
Liquor store in the city also had Keo Pure alcohol (95%) quite cheap.
A 12 oz draft at the bars was around 1 pound Cyp.
I did buy a fair amount of beer at all three sources.
Yes a few abused the drinks but most stayed out of trouble.

 

[Danjanou]

Same in 93. Then 1CMBG was commanded by a well known RCR General and all fun stopped, digging in commenced and "thou shalt wear issue kit only" orders started to appear.

*sidebar*  Anyone remember the 1 CMBG "J-J-J-Jimmy wants you" ego stroke poster from '94ish?  I was the AEV guy for it, they had us hanging out, all in issued gerar from head to toe, on High Butte for 4 hours waiting for his  Jimminess to show up.  When he did he was wearing Brit issued gloves, a Brit scarf, Belgian beret, and HiTec Magnum boots that none of us could ever hope to have.

Is there some form of army.ca version of Godwins Law in effect, that the longer a thread goes eventually a reference to the CFs Patron saint of socks will be referenced?

As for smokers back in the day, I have no recollections, which probably means they were effective ones.  ;D

 

[Old EO Tech]

Is there some form of army.ca version of Godwins Law in effect, that the longer a thread goes eventually a reference to the CFs Patron saint of socks will be referenced?

As for smokers back in the day, I have no recollections, which probably means they were effective ones.  ;D

Well the generation that lived through that is slowly retiring....we have to pass on this experience to the new generation so it doesn't happen again

 

[Danjanou]

Well the generation that lived through that is slowly retiring....we have to pass on this experience to the new generation so it doesn't happen again

Which experience the being allowed to have a beer in the boonies like a grown up, or standing sock inspections like a toddler?  ;D

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I would personally love to see smokers in the field return.  My Coy was down in Arizona on Ex with the Marines a few years ago and for the whole month we were down there we had a smoker every single night.  The only rules were you had to be able to work the next day and you weren't allowed taking your booze back to the tent lines.  The bar, run by our CQ, was open from 6pm to 10pm and during that time you were free to drink however much beer you wished within reason.  We also fired up the BBQ and served hotdogs, sausages and hamburgers for anyone that wanted some. 

Prices for beer were $2 a can and it was a $1 for a hotdog or hamburger.  The CQ maintained a $100 float for everyone that had to be paid up by the end of the exercise.  At the end, we took all the money that was made and threw a huge Coy Smoker which was a really good time. 

My experience with Smokers has been really positive.  We all drank down in Arizona on that Ex and but nobody ever got ridiculous and we had some good control measures in place to ensure that the 1%'er's didn't get themselves in any trouble.  There were nights where I would put away 5 or 6 beers then go write some PER's or do BP in my tent which definitely allowed my creative juices to flow  ;D

I will also add that it was important for the morale of the Coy because this was the time the boys got to know their leadership and any problems or grievances could be talked about in a relaxed/low stress environment.  This to me is the true value of these smokers.  It allows you the opportunity to get to know the men and allows them the opportunity to get to know you a little bit more, this can only be of benefit when you are doing the business for real.  Soldiers are men and should be treated as such.

On another note, I stumbled over an interesting blog the other night about an American working with French soldiers in Afghanistan.  I thought his comments on the French being allowed to have alcohol overseas was interesting and I find myself agreeing with him that I see no harm in it.  Checkout the blog if you are interested http://chrishernandezauthor.com/2013/07/09/working-with-the-french-army/


 

 

[dimsum]

Awesome article about the French Army, and pretty spot-on from the few conversations I had with their troops overseas.