Toast to/Table for the Fallen (merged)

[BDTyre]

I wasn't quite sure where to post this, but if anyone has a few suggestions or pointers for a Toast to the Fallen, I'd appreciate it if you could share them with me. Our men's Christmas dinner (Ortona) is coming up (this Saturday) and I've been asked to give the Toast to the Fallen. I've never done this before, and I want to make sure I don't do a disservice to those I'm toasting.

 

[Redeye]

Have you asked if the Regiment has a traditional toast (or some guidance) for the same?

I've heard the toast simply made "to absent friends", which I think is simple but solemn.  My former Regiment, the Hastings & Prince Edward Regiment, toasts "The White Battalion", the collective refererence to our fallen brethren.

(With the Hasty P's I went to visit Ortona and saw among other things the graves of the Seaforths who were killed when the Germans blew the house they were in up. Ortona stands out because it looks so new, unlike the other towns around it, having been the scene of such savage fighting)

I wasn't quite sure where to post this, but if anyone has a few suggestions or pointers for a Toast to the Fallen, I'd appreciate it if you could share them with me. Our men's Christmas dinner (Ortona) is coming up (this Saturday) and I've been asked to give the Toast to the Fallen. I've never done this before, and I want to make sure I don't do a disservice to those I'm toasting.

 

[Michael OLeary]

The section on toasts in this article: Mess Dinners; Advice for Subaltern Organizers of provides a link to a somewhat overdeveloped version which (I believe) migrated north from use in the US.

Toast to Fallen Comrades

Bear in mind that using the separate table, etc., and the full intro can put a damper on the atmosphere of the dinner.  While the full setup and introduction may have a place at some functions, I have found that a simple toast of "To our fallen comrades" (and no separate setting laid) is equally effective.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I agree with Michael O'Leary: I have seen the table setting and formal toast used in Canada. I must say, with considerable regret, that I, personally, find it overdone and, in a certain way, distasteful.

I have always found "To absent friends" to be flexible, complete, tasteful and appropriate.

 

[BDTyre]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I asked my PMC for suggestions and he pretty much gave me free reign, as long as it was tasteful and reasonably short. As far as I know, my regiment has no traditional toast to the fallen comrades; we do have our (Gaelic) regimental toast though. The empty place setting is/was being considered but it seems like now we're going to forego it.

 

[ballz]

Hello all,

I, like the OP over 4 years ago, have been asked to do the toast to the fallen in our mess dinner this Thursday. For the only two mess dinners I've been to at our Battalion, we've always used he separate place setting. I've consulted the Regimental Rogue (thanks Mr. O'Leary) and I just have one question...

The first time I ever saw this done was in Corner Brook, NL at 2 RNfldR. They ended it in a manner that I have not seen done since but was pretty powerful. Everything is as per the Regimental Rogue, except what I have added in yellow (to the best of my recollections)...

"I would like to explain the meaning of the items on this special table.

The table is round - to show our everlasting concern for our fallen comrades.
The tablecloth is white - symbolizing the purity of their motives when answering the call to duty.
The single red rose, displayed in a vase, reminds us of the life of each of our fallen comrades, and the loved ones and friends of these comrades who keep the faith.
The vase is tied with a red ribbon, symbol of our continued determination to remember our fallen comrades.
A slice of lemon on the bread plate is to remind us of the bitter fate of those who will never return.
A pinch of salt symbolizes the tears endured by the families of those who have sacrificed all.
The Holy Book represents the strength gained through faith to sustain those lost from our country.
The glass is inverted, they cannot toast with us at this time.
The chair is empty because they are no longer with us.
The flame represents their life, which burned for far too short a time, and has been extinguished (speaker doubts the flame)

Let us remember - and never forget their sacrifice. May they and their families ever be watched over and protected. Ladies and Gentlemen, to our fallen comrades..."

I asked a few people before about this, no one else seems to have seen it done this way... just wondering if anybody on here has?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Hello all,

I, like the OP over 4 years ago, have been asked to do the toast to the fallen in our mess dinner this Thursday. For the only two mess dinners I've been to at our Battalion, we've always used he separate place setting. I've consulted the Regimental Rogue (thanks Mr. O'Leary) and I just have one question...

The first time I ever saw this done was in Corner Brook, NL at 2 RNfldR. They ended it in a manner that I have not seen done since but was pretty powerful. Everything is as per the Regimental Rogue, except what I have added in yellow (to the best of my recollections)...

"I would like to explain the meaning of the items on this special table.

The table is round - to show our everlasting concern for our fallen comrades.
The tablecloth is white - symbolizing the purity of their motives when answering the call to duty.
The single red rose, displayed in a vase, reminds us of the life of each of our fallen comrades, and the loved ones and friends of these comrades who keep the faith.
The vase is tied with a red ribbon, symbol of our continued determination to remember our fallen comrades.
A slice of lemon on the bread plate is to remind us of the bitter fate of those who will never return.
A pinch of salt symbolizes the tears endured by the families of those who have sacrificed all.
The Holy Book represents the strength gained through faith to sustain those lost from our country.
The glass is inverted, they cannot toast with us at this time.
The chair is empty because they are no longer with us.
The flame represents their life, which burned for far too short a time, and has been extinguished (speaker doubts the flame)

Let us remember - and never forget their sacrifice. May they and their families ever be watched over and protected. Ladies and Gentlemen, to our fallen comrades..."

I asked a few people before about this, no one else seems to have seen it done this way... just wondering if anybody on here has?

We just do the 'To our fallen comrades' toast, then party like we're drinking for all of them...

 

[Tibbson]

Over the last many years I've seen the lone table set but at all the mess dinners I've ever been to the toast has been a simple and respectful "To our fallen Comrades" or something similar.  At the same time however the explanation of the lone table and place setting has been printed in the dinner program for those who choose to read it. 

 

[OldSolduer]

Over the last many years I've seen the lone table set but at all the mess dinners I've ever been to the toast has been a simple and respectful "To our fallen Comrades" or something similar.  At the same time however the explanation of the lone table and place setting has been printed in the dinner program for those who choose to read it.

Personally I do not like the line table. It takes away from the event/function we are attending.

"To the Fallen" is sufficient in my mind.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

TBH I don't think we had either this year.

 

[medicineman]

Honestly, the first time I ever saw the lone table at a mess dinner was actually at one I attended in Ft Drum with the US Army...this isn't a borrowed Americanism is it? 

MM

 

[Pusser]

I think the lone table and all the sap that goes with it is a borrowed Americanism.  It's certainly their style.  I don't mean any offence by that (so don't take it that way), but I do think it is over the top.  I prefer the much more subdued toast to "Absent Friends" (which, incidentally is the Navy's toast for Sunday anyway).  At the last dinner I organized, we simply set an extra place that remained vacant (place card said, "Absent Friends") and left it that. Most people understood what was going on and those that didn't could ask - which is how customs should be learned and preserved, not by long-winded sappy lectures (the salt is because we like salt on our food - it's as simple as that).  Because the Navy puts the PMC at the centre of the head table, we were able to use one end of the head table for our "Absent Friends," but I can see how that might be awkward at an Army dinner where the PMC often sits in that spot. 

The lecture gets even worse when read in a monotone by someone who's had a few and wasn't a particularly good public speaker to start with.  If it truly must be explained, then printing the explanation on the back of the menu is the best way to do that in my opinion.

 

[OldSolduer]

Honestly, the first time I ever saw the lone table at a mess dinner was actually at one I attended in Ft Drum with the US Army...this isn't a borrowed Americanism is it? 

MM

I do believe it is.

I jumped all over a Captain, who thought it would be a good idea to have this at the Troops Christmas Dinner a few years ago. He also tried to do this using his own initiative......he did not fare well.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I must say that in 26 and more years in the Navy, I have never seen an "absent friend" table used, and I believe that this is definitely not a Navy tradition. I have also had the chance of attending multiple mess diners in various Montreal Militia units and have seen the "absent friend" table used only once: It was at a mess diner set up by the Comm Squadron specifically for Remembrance Day, and that seemed quite appropriate in that setting. They gave the full "explanation". I was sitting beside a vet WWII Squadron Leader from the RCAF and asked about the tradition. I gathered from his answer that the tradition might have originated in the RAF during the war, but that was just my understanding. 

 

[George Wallace]

I must say that in 26 and more years in the Navy, I have never seen an "absent friend" table used, and I believe that this is definitely not a Navy tradition. I have also had the chance of attending multiple mess diners in various Montreal Militia units and have seen the "absent friend" table used only once: It was at a mess diner set up by the Comm Squadron specifically for Remembrance Day, and that seemed quite appropriate in that setting. They gave the full "explanation". I was sitting beside a vet WWII Squadron Leader from the RCAF and asked about the tradition. I gathered from his answer that the tradition might have originated in the RAF during the war, but that was just my understanding.

With over 40 years in the Army, it is only in the last decade that I have seen this being done.  The origins may date back many decades, but it has likely been our Afghan Missions that have caused some units to resurrect it in some form or other.

 

[exgunnertdo]

I would bet money on it being borrowed/stolen from the Americans. I saw it (I think) for the first time at a military ball at Minot AFB in the early 90s.

I also find it a bit overdone and am a bit dismayed that it seems to be considered a "mandatory" part of a dinner. Toast the Queen, toast the fallen, play the marches.  At my mess, the staff just automatically sets it up, whether the organizer of the dinner asks for it or not.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I also think this is another "creeping Americanism" and, in my opinion, an unwelcome one. There are appropriate times and places to honour our dear ~ dinner is not, again in my opinion, one of them. It seem to me that these maudlin displays actually cheapen the supreme sacrifice.

In some regiments and corps it was customary, usually at the regimental birthday type dinner, to add a toast to "absent friends" or something like that; it wasn't a universal custom. (But I remember being impressed, moved, at a dinner night in a German Panzer-Grenadier unit when, at the end of the meal, the subalterns stood and sang (chanted?) "Ich hatt' einen Kameraden". I was also somewhat surprised as I, mistakenly, associated it with the Nazis; my host explained that it was a very old, old dirge or lament and, while not heard often after WWII, was quite "proper" and some COs, he included, allowed it, now and again, on special occasions.)  But I never, in dining with several armies (and navies and air forces, too), in e.g. Australia, Britain, Germany, India, Netherlands, New Zealand and Singapore saw this custom, or anything like the empty table or empty place, except in the USA.

 

[dimsum]

I also think this is another "creeping Americanism" and, in my opinion, an unwelcome one. There are appropriate times and places to honour our dear ~ dinner is not, again in my opinion, one of them. It seem to me that these maudlin displays actually cheapen the supreme sacrifice.

In some regiments and corps it was customary, usually at the regimental birthday type dinner, to add a toast to "absent friends" or something like that; it wasn't a universal custom. (But I remember being impressed, moved, at a dinner night in a German Panzer-Grenadier unit when, at the end of the meal, the subalterns stood and sang (chanted?) "Ich hatt' einen Kameraden". I was also somewhat surprised as I, mistakenly, associated it with the Nazis; my host explained that it was a very old, old dirge or lament and, while not heard often after WWII, was quite "proper" and some COs, he included, allowed it, now and again, on special occasions.)  But I never, in dining with several armies (and navies and air forces, too), in e.g. Australia, Britain, Germany, India, Netherlands, New Zealand and Singapore saw this custom, or anything like the empty table or empty place, except in the USA.

At the RAAF Dining-In, there was an empty seat at the end of one of the wings.  There was no specific mention of it in the PMC/Vice's remarks though aside from a toast to absent friends.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

From CFACM 1-900 Air Command MESS DINNER PROCEDURES (Feb 2007)

20. ABSENT FRIENDS, FALLEN COMRADES - Depending on the reason for the Mess Dinner, the PMC may find it appropriate to include a reference to absent friends and fallen comrades. This could
take various forms including a toast, or a moment’s silence, or a small ceremony in front of a place setting with an empty chair, etc.

 

[Rifleman62]

It is definitely the US POW-MIA Table.

Also used as part of their 11 Nov ceremonies of remembrance.