Toronto: Love it or hate it?

[Humphrey Bogart]

Interesting phenomenon.

Let's look at some nice photos of the Greek Olympic Village today

Now is Ontario as hard up as Greece is?  No but could it find itself in a position like Greece?  I would say easier than we think.  I'm sure the Greeks didn't think they would go bankrupt in 2004 either.

How about Ontario worry about getting its spending under control, investing in actual infrastructure and fostering an environment that is conducive to economic growth and development. 

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

RoyalDrew, I'm curious as to why you think of Ontario as its own country. You're not the first person I've spoken to to draw those parallels.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

No one knows what the fiscal state of the Province will be by then. The infrastructure from the Pan Am and Para Pan Am games will still be around. Likely the new stadium in Markham will be built as well. I imagine the city will see a massive amount of tourism dollars from those in the US and elsewhere.

We're not Greece.

And Ontario isn't Toronto. Get over yourselves. We can't afford it and we won't be in any better shape, fiscally, as long as Wynne and her gang of thieves are still in power.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

RoyalDrew, I'm curious as to why you think of Ontario as its own country. You're not the first person I've spoken to to draw those parallels.

I'm curious as to why Toronto thinks it's a province?

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

And Ontario isn't Toronto. Get over yourselves. We can't afford it and we won't be in any better shape, fiscally, as long as Wynne and her gang of thieves are still in power.

Wynne is the Premier of Ontario, so her issues extend well beyond Toronto. And there is nothing to get over; the people who stereotype the city are those looking from the outside in. Myself and many of my friends and family here aren't living in a bubble where we are Canada. I really have no idea where these stereotypes come from because more than half of this city has residents that were born and raised, I'd wager, outside of it.

 

[George Wallace]

No one knows what the fiscal state of the Province will be by then. The infrastructure from the Pan Am and Para Pan Am games will still be around. Likely the new stadium in Markham will be built as well. I imagine the city will see a massive amount of tourism dollars from those in the US and elsewhere.

We're not Greece.

The Olympics are not the Pan Am Games.  The Olympics are much larger.  The current facilities in Toronto were able to handle the Pan Am Games, but are not large enough to hold Olympic venues.  Seating capacities are too small in most of the current locations.  Transportation and Housing would be a much larger logistical problem for the Olympics, not to mention the heightened Security measures that would have to be put into place.  That would mean that the City of Toronto could not afford it, and would need both the Provincial and Federal Governments to help finance it.  With the amount of debt that the Province of Ontario already has, nearing bankruptcy right now, the dream is doomed.

It is great that the people are enthusiastic for the Olympics to come to Toronto, but fiscal realities indicate that it is a VERY BAD IDEA.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Wynne is the Premier of Ontario, so her issues extend well beyond Toronto. And there is nothing to get over; the people who stereotype the city are those looking from the outside in. Myself and many of my friends and family here aren't living in a bubble where we are Canada. I really have no idea where these stereotypes come from because more than half of this city has residents that were born and raised, I'd wager, outside of it.

You're going through life with blinders and selective conciousness.

 

[George Wallace]

Wynne is the Premier of Ontario, so her issues extend well beyond Toronto. And there is nothing to get over; the people who stereotype the city are those looking from the outside in. Myself and many of my friends and family here aren't living in a bubble where we are Canada. I really have no idea where these stereotypes come from because more than half of this city has residents that were born and raised, I'd wager, outside of it.

The fact that many in Toronto are born and/or raised outside of it has nothing to do with your argument. 

Yes, Wynne is the Premier of Ontario.  Guess who reelected her and her corrupt Party to power?  It wasn't all the Ridings outside of the GTA. 

 

[cavalryman]

Wynne is the Premier of Ontario, so her issues extend well beyond Toronto.

No - Wynne's issues extend no further than her blinkered, and really quite stupid progressive constituency, mostly concentrated in and around Toronto.  She's hardly the province's premier.  Bringing the Olympics to a province as abysmally managed as Ontario would be a financial disaster that I'm not prepared to pay for.  I'm already paying way too much for electricity thanks to the thieves surrounding Dalton McGuinty (the worst premier Ontario ever had) and Wynne (the second worst - for now).

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

RoyalDrew, I'm curious as to why you think of Ontario as its own country. You're not the first person I've spoken to to draw those parallels.

Because in many ways it is its own country.  Just look up the word "Confederation" if you don't already know what it means. 

Provincial governments are actually responsible for a considerable amount which many Canadians don't seem to understand.  In fact many thing which Canadians care about the most (Healthcare, Education) are actually Provincial responsibilities.  Yet every Federal election you see healthcare pop up as the number on concern (psssst wrong election).

Ontario is presently running a large deficit, has a high debt to gap ratio and has had many of its money making industries shuttered over the past few years.  Instead of spending money on the Olympics which is the equivalent of taking your money and flushing it down the toilet it should be looking to invest in infrastructure and making itself more competitive in the global marketplace.

Toronto is much like Ancient Rome, it's a big sprawling city with lots of money but it actually produces very little if anything of actual value.  A substantial majority of jobs there are service based.  I fear that we've reached the point of decadence.  We need to be very careful.

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

The Olympics are not the Pan Am Games.  The Olympics are much larger.  The current facilities in Toronto were able to handle the Pan Am Games, but are not large enough to hold Olympic venues.  Seating capacities are too small in most of the current locations.  Transportation and Housing would be a much larger logistical problem for the Olympics, not to mention the heightened Security measures that would have to be put into place.  That would mean that the City of Toronto could not afford it, and would need both the Provincial and Federal Governments to help finance it.  With the amount of debt that the Province of Ontario already has, nearing bankruptcy right now, the dream is doomed.

It is great that the people are enthusiastic for the Olympics to come to Toronto, but fiscal realities indicate that it is a VERY BAD IDEA.

Fair enough but we wouldn't be starting from scratch.

You're going through life with blinders and selective conciousness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposal_for_the_Province_of_Toronto

Not to be antagonistic or anything but where does your dislike of Toronto come from? You realize that the media is partially to blame for their Toronto centric coverage, right? This city is what's great about Canada (different backgrounds gelling together, low crime rate, a billion things to do etc) but it isn't Canada. I don't feel that way and I can tell you that many of the people I've met, worked with, drink with don't feel that way either. Matter of fact, most of them aren't even from Toronto.

No - Wynne's issues extend no further than her blinkered, and really quite stupid progressive constituency, mostly concentrated in and around Toronto.  She's hardly the province's premier.  Bringing the Olympics to a province as abysmally managed as Ontario would be a financial disaster that I'm not prepared to pay for.  I'm already paying way too much for electricity thanks to the thieves surrounding Dalton McGuinty (the worst premier Ontario ever had) and Wynne (the second worst - for now).

That's democracy for you. She sold people on her agenda, they voted, and here she is. I'd look at what the people outside of Toronto are doing rather than looking at us.

The fact that many in Toronto are born and/or raised outside of it has nothing to do with your argument. 

Yes, Wynne is the Premier of Ontario.  Guess who reelected her and her corrupt Party to power?  It wasn't all the Ridings outside of the GTA. 

Then maybe those ridings need to do more to make themselves be heard

 

[George Wallace]

No - Wynne's issues extend no further than her blinkered, and really quite stupid progressive constituency, mostly concentrated in and around Toronto.  She's hardly the province's premier.  Bringing the Olympics to a province as abysmally managed as Ontario would be a financial disaster that I'm not prepared to pay for.  I'm already paying way too much for electricity thanks to the thieves surrounding Dalton McGuinty (the worst premier Ontario ever had) and Wynne (the second worst - for now).

ELECTRICITY!  Another total screw up on the part of the Ontario Liberals:

http://www.windconcernsontario.ca/six-months-and-ontarios-exports-over-1b/

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Fair enough but we wouldn't be starting from scratch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposal_for_the_Province_of_Toronto

Not to be antagonistic or anything but where does your dislike of Toronto come from? You realize that the media is partially to blame for their Toronto centric coverage, right? This city is what's great about Canada (different backgrounds gelling together, low crime rate, a billion things to do etc) but it isn't Canada. I don't feel that way and I can tell you that many of the people I've met, worked with, drink with don't feel that way either. Matter of fact, most of them aren't even from Toronto.

That's democracy for you. She sold people on her agenda, they voted, and here she is. I'd look at what the people outside of Toronto are doing rather than looking at us.

Then maybe those ridings need to do more to make themselves be heard

The problem is that the people in Toronto are too stupid to realize that they are drinking bottled water from a cooler, yes the water tastes really good and it's nice and cold but it's from a 20L jug which will soon run out. 

Ontario is blessed with the fact that the Northern part of the Province is filled with extensive natural resources which can and should be used to fuel the economy yet the provincial government has done very little if anything to facilitate development up there.  Take the Ring of Fire near James Bay where Ontario wanted the Federal government to pay for development, the Feds told Ms. Wynne "it's not our job to develop your resources".

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

The problem is that the people in Toronto are too stupid to realize that they are drinking bottled water from a cooler, yes the water tastes really good and it's nice and cold but it's from a 20L jug which will soon run out. 

Ontario is blessed with the fact that the Northern part of the Province is filled with extensive natural resources which can and should be used to fuel the economy yet the provincial government has done very little if anything to facilitate development up there.  Take the Ring of Fire near James Bay where Ontario wanted the Federal government to pay for development, the Feds told Ms. Wynne "it's not our job to develop your resources".

Again, Wynne is the Premier of Ontario, not Toronto. Is Wynne terrible? Yes. What she's doing is politics, pure and simple which is catering to those who voted her in. I would argue that she hasn't really even done that as noted earlier in the thread with regards to infrastructure. The Golden Horsehoe is growing, with Barrie, I believe, the fastest growing city in the Province. You are making it seem like Toronto is to blame for all the Province's woes when its the current Liberal government. Did Toronto help usher them into power? Absolutely but again, the outside ridings have to share the blame

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Again, Wynne is the Premier of Ontario, not Toronto. Is Wynne terrible? Yes. What she's doing is politics, pure and simple which is catering to those who voted her in. I would argue that she hasn't really even done that as noted earlier in the thread with regards to infrastructure. The Golden Horsehoe is growing, with Barrie, I believe, the fastest growing city in the Province. You are making it seem like Toronto is to blame for all the Province's woes when its the current Liberal government. Did Toronto help usher them into power? Absolutely but again, the outside ridings have to share the blame

Outside ridings? You've just proved our point. Even you are espousing an us vs them comparison. And no, we don't have to share the blame. We didn't vote for her, Toronto did. It's all on you.

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

Outside ridings? You've just proved our point. Even you are espousing an us vs them comparison. And no, we don't have to share the blame. We didn't vote for her, Toronto did. It's all on you.

I don't feel that I have an "us vs them" mentality. I'm just saying that if you feel that Toronto is responsible for the ills of the Province you're wrong. The Liberal's under Wynne don't just represent us, they represent you as well, whether you like it or not.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I don't feel that I have an "us vs them" mentality. I'm just saying that if you feel that Toronto is responsible for the ills of the Province you're wrong. The Liberal's under Wynne don't just represent us, they represent you as well, whether you like it or not.

I can't decide whether you just don't understand or are quaintly naïve. Either way, you'll not change your mind. Don't drop your rose coloured glasses, they're very fragile.

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

I can't decide whether you just don't understand or are quaintly naïve. Either way, you'll not change your mind. Don't drop your rose coloured glasses, they're very fragile.

That may be the case. And the truth is I don't know much of Canada outside the GTA as much as I'd like to. But even if things were all rosy the hate for Toronto would still be the same. Hating Toronto is as Canadian as they come. The list of (BS) reasons are quite extensive from what I hear so you and I both are wearing those rose coloured glasses.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

That may be the case. And the truth is I don't know much of Canada outside the GTA as much as I'd like to. But even if things were all rosy the hate for Toronto would still be the same. Hating Toronto is as Canadian as they come. The list of (BS) reasons are quite extensive from what I hear so you and I both are wearing those rose coloured glasses.

Well maybe when you travel a bit more you'll develop some perspective.  I certainly have.

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

Well maybe when you travel a bit more you'll develop some perspective.  I certainly have.

I'm sill in the process of applying for Reg Force Infantry and the hope is to get that perspective where ever I end up. I love the city but I'd like to see more of Canada.