Toronto: Love it or hate it?

[PMedMoe]

I only know that song because of The Sopranos 

Better than knowing it because of Glee.... 

 

[RedcapCrusader]

Toronto is too big, too busy, and too congested for my liking. I don't hate the place, but I don't like it either.

Plus the comments from a certain Toronto Media person that said "Toronto deserves to host the FIFA Women's World Cup" in a spate of jealousy over Edmonton's winning bid were quite irritating. I know not everyone from Toronto is like that, and could be said about anyone in any city.

Problem 1) Toronto didn't bid
Problem 2) Toronto is already hosting the Pan-Am and Para Pan-Am Games making them ineligible to host another major sporting event
Problem 3) Just because Toronto is the biggest city, it is not the centre of all things that be. Let someone else have a turn in the spotlight for once.

 

[Kat Stevens]

The only thing wrong with Toronto is all the urban douchebag hipster Torontoroids, or whatever those people are called, that think being from there somehow gives them some god given right to sneer at the rest of us poor dumb hicks, sort of like what they've been doing throughout this thread.

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

The only thing wrong with Toronto is all the urban douchebag hipster Torontoroids, or whatever those people are called, that think being from there somehow gives them some god given right to sneer at the rest of us poor dumb hicks, sort of like what they've been doing throughout this thread.

I think you're cool

 

[Kat Stevens]

I think you're cool

You have no idea what that means to me.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Lots of people in big cities can be bored out of their mind too, going to the same restaurants/bars/activities.

Or are too busy living their lives to hit all the hot spots.  How many Parisiens haven't been up the Eiffell Tower, or New Yorkers haven't been up the Empire State Building?

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

Or are too busy living their lives to hit all the hot spots.  How many Parisiens haven't been up the Eiffell Tower, or New Yorkers haven't been up the Empire State Building?

I haven't been to the CN Tower yet and probably never will. Myself, along with a lot of other people, won't pay an insane amount of money just to ride up a tall building. It has a glass floor! Big whoop

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Well...it shouldn't because there is a whole lot of crap that happens in the boonies, that I wouldn't want to be part of. Most of the time, boonies folks are bored out of their mind, and a trip to Costco / meet up a Timmies parking lot / driving ATVs up and down is the highlight of their day / week.

Folks from the boonies are also more likely to believe everything they see/hear on the news.

And in your mind, those boonies are anywhere outside your postal code.

You need to get out once in awhile.

 

[cupper]

Toronto is too big, too busy, and too congested for my liking.

You should avoid New York City then. Just spent a week there for work, travelled all 5 boroughs. Toronto has nothing on being too big, too busy or too congested when compared to New York.

It's all a matter of perspective.

 

[cupper]

Why Canadians Hate Toronto

http://www.vice.com/read/toronto-is-exactly-the-kind-of-city-canada-deserves-to-bring-us-together-in-mutual-loathing

Resenting Toronto is a basic part of growing up in the Canadian prairies, where I am from.

We are taught from an early age that those who live "out East" are selfish swindlers intent on fucking over the rest of the country, and many people are still mad about policies that privileged Central Canadian elites over the Western provinces going as far back as John A. Macdonald's first government.

This hostility is by no means confined to the flat provinces, though. Virtually every region has reason to resent Toronto, for sins both real and imagined, but it usually comes down to the fact that so much of the country's wealth, power, and influence is based there. Hatred for the city is so universal it even spawned a documentary in 2007 titled Let's All Hate Toronto.

Having lived in Toronto for the past two years, I can confirm that exactly none of that hatred is misplaced.

Last week, Globe and Mail sports columnist Cathal Kelly helpfully reminded many Canadians why the country's largest city is so loathed outside its borders. In a lazy column about the FIFA Women's World Cup, Kelly lamented that the competition was kicking off in Edmonton's Commonwealth Stadium and not in Toronto. After gratuitously insulting Edmonton by calling it ugly and bush-league, and claiming the stadium holding the World Cup opener "says 'high school'" because it has a track around the field, he even suggested that "the real victim here is Toronto."

Kelly, who has many bad opinions, managed to provide in one piece of writing a perfect encapsulation of what makes Toronto so obnoxious to the rest of the country. The column both reinforced Torontonians' arrogant self-image of being the center of the country, if not the larger universe, while also making the city seem like a bunch of thin-skinned whiners.

While some people in Edmonton are up in arms over Kelly's column—the city famously has no chill—the most it truly deserves is some heavy eye-rolling. What, after all, does Toronto have to brag about?

Toronto considers itself a global city but can barely keep its aging infrastructure from crumbling. The transit system hasn't seen any meaningful expansion since the 1980s (as I write this the entire subway system has unexpectedly stopped working and we've been told there won't be any buses as backup). Taking a streetcar during rush hour? Then prepare to rub up against a dozen sweaty strangers on your way through the door as you pack yourself in like a sardine while elderly pedestrians on the sidewalk outpace your stilted progress. And good luck dating anyone who lives outside the areas served by this woefully inadequate transit system. Torontonians also incessantly talk about their commutes, much like I'm doing right now.

Everyone in T-dot (an awful nickname) wants to live south of Bloor Street, but housing is so damn expensive you'll end up in a tiny matchbox apartment or living with roommates well into your 30s. Nearly half the city's workforce gets by on precarious, often minimum-wage work, and they are increasingly priced out of core neighborhoods. The real estate market is even more insane than the rest of the city's economy, and a complete absence of any government action on the matter means more than 100,000 people are on waiting lists for public housing at any given time.

Downtowners hate the suburbs; the suburbs hate downtown. The only thing they agree on is that being forced into the same city through amalgamation was a colossal mistake, and they use every election to remind each other and produce city councils full of gridlock and infighting, with the biggest fight right now over a downtown overpass that you only really care about if you drive on it, like during one of those aforementioned commutes, which means you are from the suburbs, a delivery truck or a rich asshole. And there are a lot of rich assholes in Toronto.

Toronto gave us a mayor who called in the army for snow removal, something westerners and Maritimers only stopped laughing about when voters inflicted four years of Mayor Rob Ford on themselves. Despite the city's vaunted diversity and multiculturalism, it took years to convince the police to abandon the racist practice of carding, and only 14 people of color have ever been elected city councillors. The summer humidity makes it feel like you're walking through sweat soup. The SkyDome (sorry, Rogers Center) and CN Tower are not that interesting, even for tourists. The Toronto Maple Leafs.

Toronto's affairs also get universalized in a way that just doesn't ring true to the rest of the country. It leads to a minor story about a high school dress code becoming an issue of supposed national importance, as happened with "Crop Top Day" in May. Or consider the Toronto Raptors' obnoxious marketing tagline, "We The North" that claims ownership of the entire country's identity, even though the NBA is an afterthought in much of the country. This from a city where I have known people to boast about having never travelled west of Etobicoke.

Are there just as many reasons to love Toronto? Yes, for Torontonians. But the rest of the country doesn't give a shit about how nice the Don Valley is or how many street festivals are held for mac and cheese, how historic certain neighborhoods are or Drake's tattoos.

Hating Toronto ultimately serves a much more important function than mere venting. For a country of only 35 million people spread out across a continent spanning six time zones, it can be hard to find meaningful national symbols upon which to forge common values and identity. Beavers and maple syrup? That's just tourist kitsch. But hating Toronto? Ah, now we're talking about a real common purpose.

The most painful part of the Toronto/Canada relationship, though, is that so many people eventually end up here whether they want to or not. Many journalists, for a personal example, can only get so far in their field before they have to consider moving to the Big Smoke. Same goes for comedians, actors, or any other creative field. Hell, you probably end up here if you're a lawyer or banker, too, if you want to make it to the top of your profession. With more than 5 million people in the Greater Toronto Area—about one seventh of the whole country's population—there's no denying the city has many opportunities simply not available elsewhere, and other parts of the country have for generations lost many of their young people to the megacity.

Like it or not, in a lot of ways Toronto is the best we've got. Toronto may not be the most prominent city we deserve, but it's the one we need... as a convenient focal point of our resentment, mockery, and hostility, while those within the city are mostly blissfully unaware of their awfulness.

 

[mariomike]

^ Like you say, cupper 
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/119485/post-1370169.html#msg1370169

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

This reminds of Sarah Palin's "Real Americans" comment from years back where a disconnect exists between small town folk and big city folk. I've met several tourists who thought Toronto is or should be the capital of the nation and I think we are, in a way. I think I have the best of both worlds where downtown Toronto is a half hour commute via TTC.

 

[RedcapCrusader]

You should void New York City then. Just spend a week there for work, travelled all 5 boroughs. Toronto has nothing on being too big, too busy or too congested when compared to New York.

It's all a matter of perspective.

I've been to LA, New York, Boston, Detroit, Chicago.

Boston was the only one I enjoyed.

Still doesn't change what I think about Toronto.

Norfolk Virgina.... Now that's a city!

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

This reminds of Sarah Palin's "Real Americans" comment from years back where a disconnect exists between small town folk and big city folk. I've met several tourists who thought Toronto is or should be the capital of the nation and I think we are, in a way. I think I have the best of both worlds where downtown Toronto is a half hour commute via TTC.

Toronto is the financial capital and the economic powerhouse, it's not the national capital for very good reason.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

And in your mind, those boonies are anywhere outside your postal code.

You need to get out once in awhile.

Actually, RG, I currently live "in the boonies". My postal code covers 47.5 square kilometres. In TO, you can go through five different postal codes just going up the elevator in the BMO tower  ;D .

All said though, I've always enjoyed Toronto, except for the fact that people go out too early and as a result, everything downtown closes too early - but that is just  my Montrealer's bias.

 

[George Wallace]

Toronto is the financial capital and the economic powerhouse, it's not the national capital for very good reason.

Much the same way the "Big Apple" is not the capital of the US of A.  ;D

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

Actually, RG, I currently live "in the boonies". My postal code covers 47.5 square kilometres. In TO, you can go through five different postal codes just going up the elevator in the BMO tower  ;D .

All said though, I've always enjoyed Toronto, except for the fact that people go out too early and as a result, everything downtown closes too early - but that is just  my Montrealer's bias.

You could enjoy after hours spots that are dotted around the city past 2am.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Actually, RG, I currently live "in the boonies". My postal code covers 47.5 square kilometres. In TO, you can go through five different postal codes just going up the elevator in the BMO tower  ;D .

All said though, I've always enjoyed Toronto, except for the fact that people go out too early and as a result, everything downtown closes too early - but that is just  my Montrealer's bias.

You think that's bad, my address was five digits and included Rural Route 1 at one point.

 

[FortYorkRifleman]

I was stationed at Richmond and Strachan back in the 1970's. It was heavy-industry factories back then. Deinstitutionalization wrecked havoc on us and the area.
I guess the Hipsters re-invigorated it, but I was long gone by then.
Never cared much for the Yonge and Dundas crowd, back then or now.

Didn't catch that last part earlier in the thread. I'm curious as to why you feel this way, Mike? I love people watching and when I was a smoker I would hang out in front of the Eaton Centre near Sears and watch the people go by for a good twenty minutes or so. Met all sorts there; tourists, construction workers, crazy people etc. Its a fun spot if you don't mind crowds and the occasional drunk who plants himself there

 

[cupper]

This reminds of Sarah Palin's "Real Americans" comment from years back where a disconnect exists between small town folk and big city folk.

Yes, but let's not forget that Sarah Palin thinks that Alaska is "Real America". :nod:

And she would know, 'cause she reads all the newspapers and magazines. ;D