toronto police take out armed guy with a cop car pretty cool
- Thread starter Jonny Boy
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From my understanding the suspect was attempting a "Suicide by Cops" meaning he wanted the police to kill him. This would have been a prefect example of where a taser would have come in very useful. The ETF were called, however they did not arrive in time to deploy said taser. the SUI were called in, but turned the investigation back over to TPS as the suspect was not seriously injured. (to my knowledge a broken wrist and a face full of pepper spray)
IMO, the police would not loose their jobs over the manuver with the car, considering they only had one alternative. interestingly enough, and im sure related to this incident, TPS are now implementing Tasers being issued to Road Sgts. in i belive 19, 21, and 52 division as a test project.
if you want more on the story www.cp24.com should still have some info on it, as well as the video.
POLICE USE CRUSIER IN TORONTO STANDOFF
http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20050308-007/page.asp
Wielding two ominous butcher knives, a seemingly crazed man confronted a slew of Toronto police officers at the corner of Yonge and Wellesley early Tuesday morning.
â Å“Shoot me!â ? he taunted the officers, who surrounded him with guns drawn in a tense street standoff.
Death may have been his wish, but Toronto's finest blew out the candles on his hopes for extinction, diffusing a potentially fatal confrontation by pinning the man between a bicycle stand and a police cruiser.
When the car backed up, the suspect was unhinged from his momentary prison. But it wouldn't be long before he was in a more conventional form of custody.
Finally admitting defeat, he tossed both knives to the ground and police closed in, using pepper spray to further incapacitate their unstable nemesis.
The man, believed to be in his 30s, suffered a broken wrist in the ordeal and was ordered to undergo psychiatric evaluation.
Stunned witnesses seemed to think police handled the situation appropriately.
â Å“I think that they were justified for sure,â ? said Magda Majewski. â Å“And I think that potentially they might have been justified in using more force, but I think they were clearly sort of concerned about him afterwards and taking care of him afterwards and washing out his eyes and, you know, getting him medical help.â ?
Witnesses say the man panhandles in the neighbourhood and may be homeless. But others contend that's not the case.
During the 15 minute ordeal, which began around 7am, some bystanders were apparently screaming at police to use a taser on the man, not knowing that only E.T.F. officers are currently allowed to carry the weapons.
The incident will surely spark more debate on the use of the stun guns in the police force, something former Chief Julian Fantino unsuccessfully fought for during his tenure.
In the meantime, former police officer Jim Downs believes the man at the centre of the frightening struggle is lucky to be alive.
â Å“Maybe another officer, not knowing what's going through his mind or her mind at that particular time, may have elected to use a firearm and been very justified to use that firearm. So he's a lucky man.
â Å“This is a classic example where a taser would have been appropriate tool for them, because really they only have two tools at their option. One really. They had their firearms, and the officer decided to use his car as a second tool.â ?
SUI CLOSE CASE ON TORONTO STANDOFF
http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20050310-008/page.asp
The province's Special Investigations Unit has ended its probe into a confrontation between police and a knife-wielding man in the downtown core Tuesday.
The man sustained a hairline fracture to his wrist after being pinned between a police cruiser and a bicycle stand at Yonge and Wellesley Sts. as officers attempted to disarm and arrest him. He resisted two police attempts to collar him, at one point jumping up on the hood of a moving cop car.
The incident may have helped spark the Police Services Board decision Wednesday to arm cops with 100 Tasers for a three-month trial run.
Witnesses at the scene of the disturbance called out for cops to use the stun guns, unaware that only E.T.F. officers were permitted to carry them at the time. E.T.F. was called, but didn't arrive fast enough.
The S.I.U., which investigates police involvement in civilian injuries, says the man was not harmed seriously, and have terminated their involvement.
March 10, 2005
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anyways, hope that clears up some of the speculation.
IMO, the police would not loose their jobs over the manuver with the car, considering they only had one alternative. interestingly enough, and im sure related to this incident, TPS are now implementing Tasers being issued to Road Sgts. in i belive 19, 21, and 52 division as a test project.
if you want more on the story www.cp24.com should still have some info on it, as well as the video.
POLICE USE CRUSIER IN TORONTO STANDOFF
http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20050308-007/page.asp
Wielding two ominous butcher knives, a seemingly crazed man confronted a slew of Toronto police officers at the corner of Yonge and Wellesley early Tuesday morning.
â Å“Shoot me!â ? he taunted the officers, who surrounded him with guns drawn in a tense street standoff.
Death may have been his wish, but Toronto's finest blew out the candles on his hopes for extinction, diffusing a potentially fatal confrontation by pinning the man between a bicycle stand and a police cruiser.
When the car backed up, the suspect was unhinged from his momentary prison. But it wouldn't be long before he was in a more conventional form of custody.
Finally admitting defeat, he tossed both knives to the ground and police closed in, using pepper spray to further incapacitate their unstable nemesis.
The man, believed to be in his 30s, suffered a broken wrist in the ordeal and was ordered to undergo psychiatric evaluation.
Stunned witnesses seemed to think police handled the situation appropriately.
â Å“I think that they were justified for sure,â ? said Magda Majewski. â Å“And I think that potentially they might have been justified in using more force, but I think they were clearly sort of concerned about him afterwards and taking care of him afterwards and washing out his eyes and, you know, getting him medical help.â ?
Witnesses say the man panhandles in the neighbourhood and may be homeless. But others contend that's not the case.
During the 15 minute ordeal, which began around 7am, some bystanders were apparently screaming at police to use a taser on the man, not knowing that only E.T.F. officers are currently allowed to carry the weapons.
The incident will surely spark more debate on the use of the stun guns in the police force, something former Chief Julian Fantino unsuccessfully fought for during his tenure.
In the meantime, former police officer Jim Downs believes the man at the centre of the frightening struggle is lucky to be alive.
â Å“Maybe another officer, not knowing what's going through his mind or her mind at that particular time, may have elected to use a firearm and been very justified to use that firearm. So he's a lucky man.
â Å“This is a classic example where a taser would have been appropriate tool for them, because really they only have two tools at their option. One really. They had their firearms, and the officer decided to use his car as a second tool.â ?
SUI CLOSE CASE ON TORONTO STANDOFF
http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20050310-008/page.asp
The province's Special Investigations Unit has ended its probe into a confrontation between police and a knife-wielding man in the downtown core Tuesday.
The man sustained a hairline fracture to his wrist after being pinned between a police cruiser and a bicycle stand at Yonge and Wellesley Sts. as officers attempted to disarm and arrest him. He resisted two police attempts to collar him, at one point jumping up on the hood of a moving cop car.
The incident may have helped spark the Police Services Board decision Wednesday to arm cops with 100 Tasers for a three-month trial run.
Witnesses at the scene of the disturbance called out for cops to use the stun guns, unaware that only E.T.F. officers were permitted to carry them at the time. E.T.F. was called, but didn't arrive fast enough.
The S.I.U., which investigates police involvement in civilian injuries, says the man was not harmed seriously, and have terminated their involvement.
March 10, 2005
***************************************************************************
anyways, hope that clears up some of the speculation.
ya i did co-op with the TPS last year and it seems they get flack over just about anything. i am glad they didn't get any over this. it seemed to be a very effective way to stop the guy. but then so would of shooting him. meh what ever he is off the streets thats all that matters.
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I agree that this is picture-perfect justification for widespread taser issue (every cruiser!).
Does anyone know if he was pepper sprayed before they nailed him with the car? If not was it a safe-distance issue? I guess they didn't have any of those APEC-sized canisters handy...
I remember a similar incident with a sword-wielding madman on real-tv... they subdued him using fire hoses and ladders!
To bad it wasn't a police-steamroller... lol
Does anyone know if he was pepper sprayed before they nailed him with the car? If not was it a safe-distance issue? I guess they didn't have any of those APEC-sized canisters handy...
I remember a similar incident with a sword-wielding madman on real-tv... they subdued him using fire hoses and ladders!
To bad it wasn't a police-steamroller... lol
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Use of OC would of put the officer within range of the edge weapons.. The effectiveness of edge weapons is under 21 feet as a person can close that distance within seconds and deliver his results.
The quarterbacking is great from the safety of your download on CP24.. I would say that an armed emotionally disturbed person in the downtown core of Toronto falls into the category of "threat to police or public". It was in the interests of the public and that troubled person to act and disarm him..
Piker
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Intelligere said:
One of the things I teach on the firing range is "use-of-force" and let me tell you...He may have been out of range of the police, but that could have changed in an instant and directly threatened the life of an officer or a by-stander.
Also with either drugs or mental instability, OC spray or even bullets are not a guarantee you're going to stop the man sufficiently and safely enough to get him into restraints...Specially if he was out to create the situation of "suicide by cop" as the papers seem to suggest.
Try not to armchair quarterback...You weren't there and don't know the whole story, and don't seem to be up on the current use of force laws.
Slim
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Slim
I guess that they feel that a couple of rounds fired would have been less excessive. :
GW
I guess that they feel that a couple of rounds fired would have been less excessive. :
GW
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Thanks Slim, you summed it up much better then I would have been able to.
and Intelligere, no offense, but if youre going to state something like that, please back up your statements with fact as to why you know it was excessive.
My experience is by my own addmission fairly limited to what i have seen and done in regards to military ROE's and having taken Police Foundations at the college level (at humber in toronto taught by alot of members of TPS). however i have done enough research on use of force and less-then-lethal weapons to know that the police on scene were left with very few viable alternatives to deadly force. Use of the car was not only innovative but also showed that police were willing to do ANYTHING to avoid taking a life that day. the fact is, the SIU were called in. looked at what happened and concluded that the police were doing their job. there may be an investigation at a lower level, but i personally doubt it.
I would explain to you how use of force works in the police world (as i understand it) but i dont have the space, and more importantly as i am not a police officer i dont have the practical experiance to back up my understanding.
Toronto Police are not "Cowboys" they have to come up with some unique solutions to some very unique problems. sometimes the public just doesnt like to see them accually do their job because it isnt pretty.
Regards
Josh
and Intelligere, no offense, but if youre going to state something like that, please back up your statements with fact as to why you know it was excessive.
My experience is by my own addmission fairly limited to what i have seen and done in regards to military ROE's and having taken Police Foundations at the college level (at humber in toronto taught by alot of members of TPS). however i have done enough research on use of force and less-then-lethal weapons to know that the police on scene were left with very few viable alternatives to deadly force. Use of the car was not only innovative but also showed that police were willing to do ANYTHING to avoid taking a life that day. the fact is, the SIU were called in. looked at what happened and concluded that the police were doing their job. there may be an investigation at a lower level, but i personally doubt it.
I would explain to you how use of force works in the police world (as i understand it) but i dont have the space, and more importantly as i am not a police officer i dont have the practical experiance to back up my understanding.
Toronto Police are not "Cowboys" they have to come up with some unique solutions to some very unique problems. sometimes the public just doesnt like to see them accually do their job because it isnt pretty.
Regards
Josh
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NavalGent said:
It's a bike-lock post.
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Slim said:
It isn't... much like the majority of stuff posted in Radio Chatter. ???
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