Transgender in the CF (merged)

[mariomike]

Mellian Is there any cause you don't support?
Guys chopping off their penis,George Bush is a war criminal,gay rights.....

Did you ever see the movie "Glen or Glenda"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuq1A_T3vWQ
It's director, a former Marine, "claimed that he had participated in the Battle of Guadalcanal while secretly wearing a brassiere and panties beneath his uniform."

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Chris has already undergone two sex-change surgeries and prefers to be addressed as a man. He says the military has forced him into a catch-22.

Here's his dilemma: he can't get a military job until he completes his sex-change procedures. But he can't afford the final $36,000 surgery unless he has a decent-paying job.

F&#$ you.

Grab a mirror and start giving shit to the only one person who forced you into any dilemma.
Don't start something you don't have the means to finish...........

 

[FDO]

What I'm getting from this article is this guy is ticked that we won't hire him to pay for his surgery. Not once in this artivcle did it mention anything about serving his country or making a difference or helping anyone but himself. I don't care what kind of surgery you need the CF is not an employer of convienence so you can get expensive work done at public expense.

Dn't get me wrong I'm not against this surgery being done if after he gets in and has served or still wants to serve after the surgery. I have dealt with several applicants at the Recruiting Centre that only want to get in so they can get free medical or a college diploma. "How long do I have to serve before I can get out and get a real job after I finish school" is a line I've heard a lot.

Same thing here. "I'll join, get the CF to pay and then when it's done I'll get out." Sorry wrong attitude!!

 

[Steel Badger]

In other news, Rubert, a 26 year old trans-species person is considering legal action following his rejection by the Canadian Forces.
Rubert, who is in the first stages of human to penguin re-assignment surgery stated: "What more can I do? I had a beak installed, I've changed my diet to herring......  They say they won't consider me a penguin until I get the wings!"

 

[mariomike]

Rubert, who is in the first stages of human to penguin re-assignment surgery stated: "What more can I do? I had a beak installed, I've changed my diet to herring......  They say they won't consider me a penguin until I get the wings!"

Can you imagine Penguins in desert warfare? They would be lost!

 

[FDO]

They'd be ok. Tim Horon's sells IceCaps!

 

[kratz]

Think about the penguin's skills during winter warfare or ice DivEx. They'd beat everyone hands flippers down.

 

[mellian]

Mellian Is there any cause you don't support?

Guys chopping off their penis,George Bush is a war criminal,gay rights.....

I do not support assumptions and putting words in other peoples mouths.

 

[krustyrl]

I must say, I tend to agree with you Bruce.!

 

[mellian]

It is my opinion that as far as the CF is concerned, "it is our club, if you want to join our club, you can join under our rules. If you do not fit into our rules, then it is up to you to meet the criteria we set out for you to join."

In the following case, it is to complete all operations (which DND would pay for if the person in question was already serving) prior to enrollment.

Personally, I think that is fair in this case.

If the Canadian Forces did not have different standards for males and females, in would be a non-issue. Since the CF does, they depend on the legal sex of the person to determine how to refer and treat them as. Otherwise it would become a slippery slope. Yet even if that person joins as female as per their present legal sex, they still appear as male and have taken testosterone for some time, hence effectively stuck in-between. The military is not known to starting new trends, hence I can see how they rather refuse base on the medical and avoid blurring or breaking the standards set for everyone.

Now, if the person manage to get their legal sex changed without the complete surgery (like being born in a province with looser requirements like Ontario) and transition is complete minus the SRS, it would be harder to refuse under those grounds.

 

[FastEddy]

F&#$ you.

Grab a mirror and start giving crap to the only one person who forced you into any dilemma.
Don't start something you don't have the means to finish...........

Yes "Bruce", your F&#$ you, say's it all. 8)

But also a interesting thought comes to mind, why should the CF's, Provincial or Federal Government Medical Plans pay for (cutting off or sewing on a Penis or sewing up a Vagina or what ever they do), when Canadian Citizens are dying from serious legitimate Illnesses and Diseases from extended waiting lists for treatment.

Not only to consider there are resources available for this, but to ask us to pay for it. It makes as much sense as that Guy who wants to be a Penguin.

 

[mellian]

Same thing here. "I'll join, get the CF to pay and then when it's done I'll get out." Sorry wrong attitude!!

The article nor the person said anything about the CF paying for the surgery, just that they need a job to produce enough income to pay for it themselves, and it is not easy finding work with competitive wages.

The main issue is that the person is presently legally female, and New Brunswick specifically requires a Genital Reassignment Surgery to legally change their sex designation. Frustration on their part is being refused entry for generally the same reason.

They at least ask to be accepted as male and given the opportunity to make enough money while serving in the CF to pay for that surgery themselves, and in turn fulfill the New Brunswick requirement to legally change their sex.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

The Forces reject folks for lots of medical reasons that a "normal" employer would not be able to. This lad/ ladette is no different..............

 

[mellian]

But also a interesting thought comes to mind, why should the CF's, Provincial or Federal Government Medical Plans pay for (cutting off or sewing on a Penis or sewing up a Vagina or what ever they do), when Canadian Citizens are dying from serious legitimate Illnesses and Diseases from extended waiting lists for treatment.

Because it is just as legitimate, as there are standards and regulations in treating trans people.

Not only to consider there are resources available for this, but to ask us to pay for it.

Read the article again. Nowhere says they request the CF to pay for it, just to be accepted into the CF as male.

It makes as much sense as that Guy who wants to be a Penguin.

It does not as males and females are not separate species.

 

[mellian]

The Forces reject folks for lots of medical reasons that a "normal" employer would not be able to. This lad/ ladette is no different..............

It may have been a decision made by medical, but if the reason of refusal is just because their legal sex is still female and missing the required SRS to legally change that despite being in good health and medically cleared in all other ways, it becomes more of an administration reason.

Hence the question of the thread I started before it got merged, what if that person managed to have changed their legal sex without the SRS? Would they have made the decision? Even thought genitals are not checked by medical as per the application process?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Because it is just as legitimate

Bull!  Try telling that to someone who is still waiting for chemo after 5 months.  It's not a bottomless pit.....

 

[mariomike]

Genital Reassignment Surgery to legally change their sex designation.

Christine Jorgensen ( US Army vet ) was the first widely-known individual to have sex reassignment surgery:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Jorgensen
"Ex-GI Becomes Blonde Beauty"

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

It may have been a decision made by medical, but if the reason of refusal is just because their legal sex is still female and missing the required SRS to legally change that despite being in good health and medically cleared in all other ways, it becomes more of an administration reason.

Again I call bull........why should they accept someone awaiting [what I would assume] is a major surgery?  That's medical.....

 

[Steel Badger]

Interesting argument:

Please accept me as something I am not, but one day may be;  in order that I may be employed by you in order to earn enough money to finish transforming myself.

The main issue is that gender-reassignment is the individual's business, NOT the CF's. Just like applicants who are counselled out due to NPD use, or because of failed backchecks etc, poor Rubert the semi-penguin et al must accept that if they do not meet the criteria for enrollment they will be refused until such time as the outstanding issues are taken care of.

To put it another way,  Applicant Bloggins is refused for the CF because he owes over 20,000$ in child support. Should we employ him ( and pay him) just so he can meet the basic eligibility requirements for the CF???

 

[mellian]

Bull!  Try telling that to someone who is still waiting for chemo after 5 months.  It's not a bottomless pit.....

You are comparing a medical treatment that is not in high of demand to one that is. It costs more in terms of money and resources to cover the chemo treatment for all those that needs it than it does to cover SRS for the much smaller list of people who seek to transition and get a sex change. Sure, in triage base priorities, those with cancer will be treated first as it is more life threatening, like it has been the case so far, but it does not make it any more or less legitimate.