Troop Strength to Increase

[Shec]

It is because public service regulations classify their jobs as executives.   We are governed by the same rules that define the pay & benefits for all government employees.

Another inconsistent policy decision.   To carry the rationale to its next logical conclusion should junior ranks be unionized?     : : :

The Civil Service is just that - a civilian service.   It does not have the same culture as a military service.   In this case mixing two such radically different cultures only serves to weaken rather than to reinforce.

Maybe I'm getting old and set in ways but a civilian manager manages issues.    A military officer leads troops.   There is a difference.    Maybe the CF should replace attache cases with map cases.

 

[NMPeters]

It's not exactly a "negotiation" of salary. It's a base salary and then they are given a yearly "performance bonus" based on their PER. It's for the rank of colonel and above. I think the only one who really negotiates a salary for himself is the CDS. I'm not 100% certain of this, but this is my understanding of the situation.

 

[George Wallace]

It's not exactly a "negotiation" of salary. It's a base salary and then they are given a yearly "performance bonus" based on their PER. It's for the rank of colonel and above. I think the only one who really negotiates a salary for himself is the CDS. I'm not 100% certain of this, but this is my understanding of the situation.

I don't think there is a "base salary" per sae.  The pay scales go as hgh as LCol and no higher.  I am under the impression that they do infact put in sealed 'bids' as to what their salary will be.  If you had freedom to examine their pays, you may find full Colonels making more than Major Generals.

GW

 

[Spr.Earl]

I have heard the same over the years George and I think it's a disgrace and if so should be stopped.
Every one should be on a pay scale right up to the C.D.S..
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander!!
We are not a Fortune 500 Corp.!!!

 

[NMPeters]

Ok. I looked up the pay tables and there are pay tables for Colonels and Generals. I'd give you the link but it's on the DIN. Here are the rates with a minimum and maximum range:

Colonel: min - 86,100 max 101,300
BGen: min 98,600 max 116,000
MGen: min 119,900 max 141,100
LGen min 136,700 max 160,900

What I'm thinking is that everyone gets their minimum pay based on their rank and their performance pay is added so as not to exceed the maximum amount. I think. I'm not sure. I'll ask around though and find out how it works for sure. Give me a couple of days.

 

[Infanteer]

Curious to know what the General's salary is as well.

 

[Yard Ape]

Having common pay & benefits with the public service is one of the reasons that we no longer get married allowances.  However, most of the public service are not expected to move ever 2 - 4 years & their spouses can land stable jobs.

 

[Harrier101]

How on earth does a country like Sweeden or Switzerland do it then? They half not even a quarter of the land mass we have, and they have a fairly decent Military. No?

Slim has summed it all up in one, simple sentance....the government needs to change. I am kinda ashamed of being a Canadain based soley on the fact, that I am representative of a country that elect's a government into power that has a mandate of wrecking it and wasting millions on nuttin. It makes me laugh to think about the sponsership scandel...how much was that...WASTED? Could have gone to the forces. How about the HRDC Boondoggle a few years back with that Jane stewart wasn't it? Again, millions wasted.

And what does the mass populous do at the next election. Votes 'em back in. It makes me laugh. If the government never changes, or if
another government comes in that has as much disregard for money, and the country and for the military, hell will freeze before the forces is given the money, funding and support it needs in order to become a world class millitary. I frimly believe, we could defend this nation from  from a moderate attack by a rouge state......with bows, arrows and stones if we had too, only because it's members make the CF what it is, not because it is given the tools to do the job by the elected government of the day.

I will say a governemt has done what it said it would do when it has done it.

 

[Slim]

I am no history buff...Nor do I have an education in it past grade 12 Ontario, but I do like to read. It seems that the government has been doing this for as far back as anyone can remember...(pre-WW2)

If I'm wrong or someone has a more in-depth view please come forward and comment because I am interested in the whole situation (just as we all are)

How did the canadian government turn into an Old Boys Club? And wwhy do the important things always get screwed in favour of money wasting projects (like new Citation Jets for the Govt. when Seathings are falling right out of the sky!)

Anyone know?

Slim ???

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Our country has notoriously start small, built up massively (one of the largest Navies end of WW2) and gradually reduced the military again.  As far as politics go Mulruney(sp) (PC) was no better then the Liberals.  They all lie, cheat and steal.  We're screwed either way until some terrorist blows up Martins flower garden.  Even then I'm not so sure.

 

[Scott]

Our country has notoriously start small, built up massively (one of the largest Navies end of WW2) and gradually reduced the military again.   As far as politics go Mulruney(sp) (PC) was no better then the Liberals.   They all lie, cheat and steal.   We're screwed either way until some terrorist blows up Martins flower garden.   Even then I'm not so sure.

LMAO  I could not agree more.

 

[Spanky]

I just finished reading "Marching as to War" by Pierre Burton.  In it he traces the politics involved in going to war etc.  He begins with the Boer War and ends with Korea.  It's amazing how similar things ran between the war years.  The Forces being starved is nothing new.  The onle difference between now and then is the fact that todays forces are actually going on ops.

 

[vr]

It's quite silly to compare the Canadian Military to Sweden & Switzerland.  We are an all-volunteer force with a poor 2nd cousin Reserve Force that's kept under the kitchen sink and fed dog food.  Most of the Swiss & Swedish military ARE Reserves including, in the Swiss case, fighter pilots.  These countries have universal conscription with continuing reserve service obligations into your 40's & 50's.  In Switzerland most reservists keep their personal weapon at home as well.  Can you imagine how much solid waste would hit the oscillating air conditioner if they ever tried that here.

Switzerland & Sweden also have the experience of living on the front line of one world war and one Cold war.  They are also aware that declarations of neutrality (soft power) are only worth the paper they're printed on unless backed by force (real power).  Lastly these two countries have something that this country sadly lacks, namely a sense of pride in their history and a strong sense of national identity.

 

[Slim]

Well I like the comparison and I do think that there is quite a bit of validity in what was said.

However discussing Canada's lack of national pride will surely lead us down the path to discussing immigration policies that this country has adopted and even I won't kick the lid off of that can of worms.

I wish someone had the guts to stand up and say out loud that holiday trees and health care aren't the be all and end all of a countries needs...But of course that will never happen, will it!? Power is a too precious thing for a polatician to surrender for something as worthless (in their eyes) as the CF. :

Slim

 

[George Wallace]

Perhaps we should take some pointers from the old story "The Mouse Who Roared".


GW

 

[onecat]

"However discussing Canada's lack of national pride will surely lead us down the path to discussing immigration policies that this country has adopted and even I won't kick the lid off of that can of worms"

The lack of pride really has nothing to do with current immigraqtion policies.  It has more do with out history than who we pick to come here.  Before the WW2 and after most Canadians were more proud of being in the British Empire then being Canadian.  And having a multi-cultural immigration policies hasn't made it any worst, in fact I think I it's made it better.  I know more first gen Canadians who more proud of and wave flag than being who's families have been here of 100 years or more.  Look how Canada is taught in schools, that alone explains why most Canadians don't who was the first PM, or the role our military played in keeping England a save.  I could on, but I don;t really want to get in a immigration debate either...

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Actually my take on the whole immigration things is that it seems a lot of new immigrants hold their previous countries politics, best interests etc first and Canada's second.  But like you that is my own opinion.

 

[Acorn]

Actually my take on the whole immigration things is that it seems a lot of new immigrants hold their previous countries politics, best interests etc first and Canada's second.   But like you that is my own opinion.

And how large a sample of "new immigrants" have you collected? One's opinions should be formed from something more than a superficial glance. No?

Acorn

 

[wongskc]

Reading information like this makes me too depressed. :'(



So much for making the CF my career.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Your right Acorn it should be done by more then a glance however I don't have the time to run a proper scientific study on the matter.  That is why I emphasised that it was my opinion and not something factual.