Trudeau Popularity - or not (various polling, etc.)

[Brad Sallows]

Putting Carney in now would give him some seat time before a quick leadership swap ahead of the next election. Which might be the plan.

Carney will probably fare about as well as Ignatieff. Poilievre will ride him like a donkey.

 

[QV]

Carney will probably fare about as well as Ignatieff. Poilievre will ride him like a donkey.

He's already had the PP treatment and didn't fair well.

 

[Rifleman62]

Warren Kinsella


PMO is screwed now. If they move her out, it adds to the narrative that they throw women who displease Trudeau under the bus. If they keep her, she'll be under a cloud and Trudeau's pledge to shake things up will be seen as BS

 

[daftandbarmy]

Warren Kinsella

PMO is screwed now. If they move her out, it adds to the narrative that they throw women who displease Trudeau under the bus. If they keep her, she'll be under a cloud and Trudeau's pledge to shake things up will be seen as BS

 

[McG]

If the Liberals want to turn around their situation, they will punt Trudeau. Then have caucus pick a new leader from amongst themselves.

Letting him leave on his own just lets him leave all his baggage behind with the party.

 

[Maxman1]

They can't. They removed that ability after Martin replaced Chretien, and have consistently voted against reinstating it ever since.

 

[The Bread Guy]

If the Liberals want to turn around their situation, they will punt Trudeau. Then have caucus pick a new leader from amongst themselves.

Letting him leave on his own just lets him leave all his baggage behind with the party.

Either way, a lot of people say that won't be enough at this point. In fact, since people are still trusting polling these days, this from a couple of weeks back ....

Must Trudeau go? Amid chatter of his ouster, potential Liberal replacements offer little room for party to recover -

Potential Liberal voters say lack of progress on key issues holding them back more than Trudeau himself June 24, 2024 – As the ballots are counted from the byelection in Toronto-St. Paul’s – a contest that many believe is pivotal for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s future at the helm of the...

angusreid.org

Mind you, as some of the commentariat have been saying, JT leaving could mean the difference between losing but being able to save some of the furniture from the fire, and losing down to almost nothing-ville for Team Red.

 

[CountDC]

A modern, competent fighting force needs the ability to say no, without fear of retribution, to manifestly unlawful orders.

The requirement to disobey manifestly unlawful orders negates any question of absolute loyalty.

The question becomes who determines it is manifestly unlawful and how do they? "in a way that is clear or obvious to the eye or mind."

 

[CountDC]

None of these polls ever contact us. We have 4 votes that will not be for Liberal regardless of who they put in the seat.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The question becomes who determines it is manifestly unlawful and how do they? "in a way that is clear or obvious to the eye or mind."

Anyone receiving the order. It's a judgement call, informed by whatever professional knowledge one has acquired about LOAC, ethics, etc. There isn't going to be some authority to whom to appeal. Even a JAG branch lawyer is just going to give an opinion, not a ruling.

 

[CBH99]

Is it wrong to expect unquestioned loyalty, within legal parameters, of our soldiers, sailors and airmen? How does that fit in with being nationalist/ facist?

Interesting question...

My personal opinion (skipping right over any legal arguments to be made) is that asking unquestioned or extreme loyalty from our service members IS wrong - and unreasonable.

People can swear absolute loyalty to an idea, or a set of values and beliefs. And if their country shares those same values and beliefs, then so be it...

But if a country's foreign or domestic policy is NOT in line with the value system of its service members, there will come a time when those service members demonstrate more loyalty to their values than the state


Basically, people will follow their conscience. Some may choose to do so sooner than others, but they will - regardless of what oath one takes...

 

[The Bread Guy]

So, a hint Carney's welcome on board the (if polls are to be believed) sinking ship, or a three-dimensional-chess-level-of-spite move to 1) completely ruin his chances, or 2) convince him to take the conn as the Titanic hits the iceberg?

Mark Carney would be 'outstanding' addition to federal politics, Trudeau says

OTTAWA - Mark Carney would be an "outstanding addition" to federal politics, the prime minister said Thursday, in response to speculation that he is trying to recruit the former Bank

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

 

[Haggis]

So, a hint Carney's welcome on board the (if polls are to be believed) sinking ship, or a three-dimensional-chess-level-of-spite move to 1) completely ruin his chances, or 2) convince him to take the conn as the Titanic hits the iceberg?

Mark Carney would be 'outstanding' addition to federal politics, Trudeau says

OTTAWA - Mark Carney would be an "outstanding addition" to federal politics, the prime minister said Thursday, in response to speculation that he is trying to recruit the former Bank

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

I don't know if being endorsed by chief the iceberg sentry to be the new captain of the Titanic is a good thing.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I don't know if being endorsed by chief the iceberg sentry to be the new captain of the Titanic is a good thing.

Like they say, with friends like these, right?

 

[brihard]

Carney’s best bet would be to wait til after the electoral obliteration, then come onboard to be a part of the party rebuild. Why would anyone seek to join the party leadership now?

 

[dapaterson]

Carney’s best bet would be to wait til after the electoral obliteration, then come onboard to be a part of the party rebuild. Why would anyone seek to join the party leadership now?

 

[brihard]

Anyone entering federal politics in this day and age is a masochist.

 

[Good2Golf]

…or lives in the land of Tropic Thunder…

 

[Kirkhill]

Neither do I. I see two sides who have weaponised it as a cudgel to beat opposition to their beliefs.


Taking pride in one's nation is not inherently ugly. Being wilfully blind to it's past transgressions, indifferent to it's existing systemic flaws, and demanding unquestioning loyalty of your citizens...well that is nationalism/facism to the largest degree.

Do I think your average Canadian is there? Hell no. Is it something to educate and be wary of? Yes. Does it become a raison d'etre to tear down monuments and indoctrinate people out of a national pride mindset? Absolutely not.

who is being marginalized by me being proud of being Canadian?

Absolutely no one. What leads to people being marginalized is a culture that puts more stock in how being Canadian makes them "feel" than actually fixing the problems we face as citizens in the day to day. Those marginalized folks can be any flavour of Canadian who's needs aren't met by a government policy, left or right leaning.


 Agreed

The Labour Party of the UK originated as a christian national socialist party. They organized on Methodist church principles in England and aspired to build Jerusalem in England's green and pleasant land. This resulted in them being early supporters of Zionism.

There is still a schism between that wing of the party and the Red Rag mob of Trotskyites represented by Corbyn. The third way is the Fabian Social Democrats of Shaw, the Webbs, the LSE and the Blairites.

The problem is that the working classes are often highly patriotic and nationalistic.

Up the Lions! Engaland, Engaland, Engaland!

 

[Brad Sallows]

The best time to strike for the next person who wants to lead the LPC as PM in Parliament will be after the first re-election of the CPC.