Trudeau Popularity - or not (various polling, etc.)

[Remius]

why would he bother? He has to be deranged

Age. This is his only shot. And he will be PM if not for a short time assuming he wins the nod from the party.

 

[YZT580]

My bad.

But in Quebec and Ontario, we consider the history of "Canada" to start with and include the both of us from the moment the French established the colony of Canada in North America.

yet all the names you mentioned were British. Do french ancestry folks get a free pass because they were the defeated race>

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

No, but I am not aware of any of the French that settled French Canada to have had slaves (Though, now that I think about it, perhaps Frontenac owned some, IIRC some of the history I read).

 

[suffolkowner]

I kinda agree with OGBD a bit. In that I often dont distinguish between pre and post Confederation. My family being British-Canadian and extending back to that time. So in my mind yeah we burned the White House and still awaiting my compensation for Philadelphia

 

[Remius]

No, but I am not aware of any of the French that settled French Canada to have had slaves (Though, now that I think about it, perhaps Frontenac owned some, IIRC some of the history I read).

Oh they did. And they adapted a lot of the indigenous practices. While not legal to enslave, they could still, buy and sell.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

No, but I am not aware of any of the French that settled French Canada to have had slaves (Though, now that I think about it, perhaps Frontenac owned some, IIRC some of the history I read).

Indentured Servants in New France — The French-Canadian Genealogist

Was your ancestor a "engagé," or indentured servant? Learn more about these contract workers in New France and Canada.

www.tfcg.ca

The indentured servant, or indentured servant, was an immigrant to New France who worked for an employer in the colony. Engagement contracts were the primary method of recruitment of workers to the new colony starting in the 1630s. The two major periods of engagement for New France were between 1640 to 1669, and 1710 to 1749.


The engagement was generally male, in his twenties, single and from the west of France. In exchange for his work, he received room and board, clothing and a salary (about 75 pounds per year), in addition to being reimbursed for the cost of the trip to Canada. Some indentured workers were even granted an advance on their wages before leaving France. Employers were also responsible for paying for their servants' return to France, but after 1665, this was no longer an obligation.


Once their contract was over, an engagement could return to France, or choose to stay in the colony. It is estimated that roughly 5,200 indentured servants came to Canada under the French regime, mostly in the 17th century. Of this number, only about 900 decided to stay (about 17%).

My point in this and my previous point is that slavery or some version thereof seems to be a constant throughout history.

History is somethng to be learned from, not apologised for, particularly when the percieved Injustice has been committed by all peoples somewhere in their history.

 

[Remius]

Indentured Servants in New France — The French-Canadian Genealogist

Was your ancestor a "engagé," or indentured servant? Learn more about these contract workers in New France and Canada.

www.tfcg.ca

My point in this and my previous point is that slavery or some version thereof sees to be a constant through history.

Nor should slavery be viewed under the same lens. When people think slavery they only think of black slavery and specifically black trans Atlantic slave trade. The reality is incredibly diverse throughout history.

History is somethng to be learned from, not apologised for, particularly when the percieved Injustice has been committed by all peoples somewhere in their history.

It can still be apologized for if said history has a direct and continued damaging impact on the individuals affected and the perpetrators of those acts are still present. There are still moral principles that are universal throughout history.

 

[Kirkhill]

This will come as a surprise to most First Nations, given that many of them:

1) practiced slavery;
2) slaughtered those men who defied them;
3) took the women as their own; and
4) raised captive children as their own, even forcing their own religion and behavioral norms upon them.

Mind you, so did the Catholic church.

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/black-enslavement

Around 3,000 enslaved men, women and children of African descent were brought into British North America. By the 1790s, the number of enslaved Black people in the Maritimes (New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island) ranged from 1,200 to 2,000. There were about 300 in Lower Canada (Québec), and between 500 and 700 in Upper Canada (Ontario).

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/slavery-of-indigenous-people-in-canada

To a tremendous extent, the enslavement of Indigenous peoples defines slavery in Canada. Fully two-thirds of the slaves in the colony of New France were Indigenous. After 1750, the number of Indigenous slaves brought into French Canada began to decline. When slavery was abolished in British colonies in 1834, Black slaves far outnumbered Indigenous slaves. (See also Black Enslavement in Canada.)

Prior to European contact, it was common in some Indigenous communities to enslave those captured in war. In general, most Indigenous peoples primarily distinguished between those who were kin and those who were outsiders — either trade allies or enemies who were legitimate captives in warfare. Indigenous peoples enslaved those they captured in war for a number of reasons.

Indigenous enslavement was central to the survival of England’s southern colonies; all relied almost entirely on Indigenous slaves initially, for personal service and to break the land for plantations. African slaves were less popular during this time because they were more expensive. It was cheaper to buy (or ultimately, to capture) Indigenous people.

When the supply of Indigenous slaves from South Carolina dried up following the Yamasee War, the French-Canadian colony obtained the slaves it needed from fur traders who brought Indigenous slaves from the western region of the continent. Some historians identified the primary slaves in Canada as the Pawnees, for whom the generic name Panis began to be used for most Indigenous slaves. Ultimately, slaves were obtained from all over the western territories where New France traded.

Small numbers of Indigenous and even fewer Black slaves were held in most regions of New France outside of the French Canadian colony (the exception being Louisiana, where the dominance of a plantation economy meant that thousands of Black slaves and some Indigenous slaves were also held). In Canada, the ratio of Indigenous to Black slaves was 2:1. The French colonists there received permission from Louis XIV to import African slaves in 1689. However, since New France relied on Indigenous allies for survival, the king was reluctant to rule on the legality of Indigenous enslavement.

After repeatedly petitioning the king for clarification,Intendant Jacques Raudot passed a colonial law in 1709 —Ordinance Rendered on the Subject of the Negroes and the Indians called Panis— that legitimized slavery in New France. The ordinance stipulated that both Indigenous and Black slaves brought to the colony would be considered the possession of those who purchased them.

...

Lots more if you like - Haida slavers, Iroquois slavers, Muslim slavers, Irish slavers, Chinese slavers, Cherokee, Choctaw and Seminole slavers, Black, Roman and Greek slavers.

....

One thing that my eye has been drawn to is the relationship between money and slavery.

In a society lacking in money slavery is pretty much a given. If you have gold you can buy food, shelter and people to work for you. If you lack gold, and foraging isn't an option, then your only alternative is to contract yourself to somebody that can supply those needs. Those contracts, in the absence of money, were open ended and depended on you keeping the contract holder happy. If you kept the old geezer happy then you might get lucky and receive your manumission. In the modern era this is defined as earning social credit.

Lord, Abbot, Bey or Commissar - they hold your future in their hands. You serve at their pleasure and on their terms. Medical care for whippings are at your expense.

....

Indenture contracts were an improvement. They were time limited. Their terms were controlled and they could be contested in independent courts. And, when money was transferred from the contractor to the servant then the servant could accumulate wealth, or capital, and buy out their contract on their terms.

....

Capitalism, the concept of everybody having access to a means of earning and storing wealth, put an end to slavery. With wealth, money, you could choose who and when you put yourself at the service of another and under what terms.

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There is no coincidence in the rise of the capital banking system and the eventual demise of slavery. Steam engines and mobile wealth reduced the utility of slaves. The Arabs were among the last to grasp that concept, holding out until the 1980s.

....

Last slave state - Mauretania, 1981.

Slavery in Mauritania - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

...

Short form. No apologies from me, or mine, or my kin. Now. Or ever.

 

[Good2Golf]

why would he bother? He has to be deranged

PM for a few weeks…

 

[brihard]

PM for a few weeks…

Right. And think of the information he’ll have access to and the things he’ll be briefed on. For someone in his position that’s invaluable.

 

[Good2Golf]

Privy Councillor for life…a bunch of status perks, no doubt.

So…Cagney, Baylis and Chandra. Any others we think? Leslie for a comeback?

 

[lenaitch]

apologize and compensate

And there's the crux of it. If the current State apologized for actions of an earlier State and everybody accepted it in the spirit it was offered, viewed it as a teachable moment and moved on, fewer people would have a problem with it. We can't provide moral contrition for those who have gone before us. Unfortunately, an apology is seen as an admission of guilt and the opening gambit for compensation.

Or maybe I'm just miffed at the English for all the things they did to my Scottish ancestors.

 

[brihard]

Leslie for a comeback?

I already ticked the “puke in mouth” box this week, so simmer down, you.