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Trudeau Popularity - or not (various polling, etc.)

lenaitch said:
I doubt that would have gone over well with the FNs. Complain as they might about the Indian Act, those that advocate for change want it replaced, not abolished. To simply abolish it is akin to saying 'you lost, suck it up'.
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To abolish it is to create a equal society free of racism and discrimination based on accident of birth. Is being a equal Canadian citizen such a bad thing?

They still have representation, the same representation we all receive, our vote which elects MPs to represent our interests. They would just lose the special rights which other Canadians do not receive.

I see no reason why in 2023 we should have one rule for thee and another for me. I understand the history, but I don’t think people should receive special privileges because of it. Legitimate historical issues should be addressed, but they should be addressed with the intent of resolving them and moving forward as equals.
 
Eaglelord17 said:
To abolish it is to create a equal society free of racism and discrimination based on accident of birth. Is being a equal Canadian citizen such a bad thing?

They still have representation, the same representation we all receive, our vote which elects MPs to represent our interests. They would just lose the special rights which other Canadians do not receive.

I see no reason why in 2023 we should have one rule for thee and another for me. I understand the history, but I don’t think people should receive special privileges because of it. Legitimate historical issues should be addressed, but they should be addressed with the intent of resolving them and moving forward as equals.
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I agree with the desired end goal, but the challenge would be broad buy-in. The FN 'community' isn't a monolithic bloc. Some hold with traditional governance and traditional values rather than 'white man's rules'. Heck, Six Nations in Ontario has both a hereditary (traditional) and an elected (Indian Act) council and they can't get along.
 
lenaitch said:
I doubt that would have gone over well with the FNs. Complain as they might about the Indian Act, those that advocate for change want it replaced, not abolished. To simply abolish it is akin to saying 'you lost, suck it up'.
Click to expand...
The one good thing about it, is that it introduced democracy into their leadership structure. Although with some issues that took to long to be fixed (voting from off reserve being a major one)
 
Eaglelord17 said:
To abolish it is to create a equal society free of racism and discrimination based on accident of birth. Is being a equal Canadian citizen such a bad thing?

They still have representation, the same representation we all receive, our vote which elects MPs to represent our interests. They would just lose the special rights which other Canadians do not receive.

I see no reason why in 2023 we should have one rule for thee and another for me. I understand the history, but I don’t think people should receive special privileges because of it. Legitimate historical issues should be addressed, but they should be addressed with the intent of resolving them and moving forward as equals.
Click to expand...

The whole FN and Indian Act etc. edifice is at its peak. The whole thing is on borrowed time going forward. Demographics alone will tell you that. The amount of New Canadians coming will change everything in ways not even guessed at by most. Do you think New Canadians will have the desire pay the "colonizer" or White man's burden, or even have the guilt? Its not going to go well....
 
Spencer100 said:
The whole FN and Indian Act etc. edifice is at its peak. The whole thing is on borrowed time going forward. Demographics alone will tell you that. The amount of New Canadians coming will change everything in ways not even guessed at by most. Do you think New Canadians will have the desire pay the "colonizer" or White man's burden, or even have the guilt? Its not going to go well....
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15 years ago I was telling the FN's I was consulting with that pretty soon there will be no white guys sitting across a table from you, but a brown person with no interest in your history.
 
Spencer100 said:
Do you think New Canadians will have the desire pay the "colonizer" or White man's burden, or even have the guilt? Its not going to go well....
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Conversely, at what point is my 7th generation son indigenous relative to the average Canadian?
 
Spencer100 said:
The whole FN and Indian Act etc. edifice is at its peak. The whole thing is on borrowed time going forward. Demographics alone will tell you that. The amount of New Canadians coming will change everything in ways not even guessed at by most. Do you think New Canadians will have the desire pay the "colonizer" or White man's burden, or even have the guilt? Its not going to go well....
Click to expand...
especially when a lot of those New Canadians are coming from areas where they were colonized by the same white men.

"The British came and took everything from us"

Indian/Jamaican/Cantonese/Kenyan/Palestinian Canadians:
Episode 2 Whatever GIF
 
rmc_wannabe said:
especially when a lot of those New Canadians are coming from areas where they were colonized by the same white men.

"The British came and took everything from us"

Indian/Jamaican/Cantonese/Kenyan/Palestinian Canadians:
Episode 2 Whatever GIF
Click to expand...

What about the Roman empire, or the Ottomans, or Moors, or Berber, or Byzantines, or Greeks, or Egyptian, or the Mongols, or Vikings ?

The list is endless.

Everyone has been the winner or the loser in the Empire draw at some point, going after just one reeks of a prejudice to me. It fashionable to want to tare down the west I guess.
 
Halifax Tar said:
What about the Roman empire, or the Ottomans, or Moors, or Berber, or Byzantines, or Greeks, or Egyptian, or the Mongols, or Vikings ?

The list is endless.

Everyone has been the winner or the loser in the Empire draw at some point, going after just one reeks of a prejudice to me. It fashionable to want to tare down the west I guess.
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You're preaching to the converted there, friend.

-Dad's side is Sicilian: everyone from the Phoenicians to the Nazi's conquered that island in it's millennia of continuous population.
-Mom's side is Scottish: genealogy has shown we have ancestors that died a Stirling Bridge and Culloden on both sides. We have cousins involved in both the "Yes" and "No" sides of the independence referendum.

In both cases, not a foot from either side was on Canadian soil until after 1952. The notion that my immigrant parents are "colonizers" is a farce.

Until we start setting up permanent habitation in Space or on Mars, we're going to continue to fight and compete over resources. There isn't any special treatment because "I was here first." (especially as that's suggestive, as the Palestinians/Israelis are showing us).
 
Spencer100 said:
The whole FN and Indian Act etc. edifice is at its peak. The whole thing is on borrowed time going forward. Demographics alone will tell you that. The amount of New Canadians coming will change everything in ways not even guessed at by most. Do you think New Canadians will have the desire pay the "colonizer" or White man's burden, or even have the guilt? Its not going to go well....
Click to expand...
I suppose it's a matter of perspective. Every generation after the ones that signed the treaties could be considered 'new Canadians without guilt". Do/did the 'white men' from eastern Europe who settled the prairies own the guilt? I'm not sure current new Canadians are much different than new Canadian were 100 years ago simply by virtue of the fact that they come from a different part of the world.

It could be argued that many of the current new Canadians may be more sensitive to the issues because they hail from a former colony of somebody. Or they won't care because nobody is taught history anymore.

Colin Parkinson said:
The one good thing about it, is that it introduced democracy into their leadership structure. Although with some issues that took to long to be fixed (voting from off reserve being a major one)
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I'm not sure our predecessors knew (or cared) if their existing system of governance wasn't working or if democracy was a step up for them.

One problem I have experienced in dealing with them is each individual recognized Reserve/First Nation is treated like an individual and distinct cultural nation. It doesn't matter if it 100 people and ethnically the same as the other five nearby, they are dealt with on a nation-to-nation basis.
 
rmc_wannabe said:
You're preaching to the converted there, friend.

-Dad's side is Sicilian: everyone from the Phoenicians to the Nazi's conquered that island in it's millennia of continuous population.
-Mom's side is Scottish: genealogy has shown we have ancestors that died a Stirling Bridge and Culloden on both sides. We have cousins involved in both the "Yes" and "No" sides of the independence referendum.

In both cases, not a foot from either side was on Canadian soil until after 1952. The notion that my immigrant parents are "colonizers" is a farce.

Until we start setting up permanent habitation in Space or on Mars, we're going to continue to fight and compete over resources. There isn't any special treatment because "I was here first." (especially as that's suggestive, as the Palestinians/Israelis are showing us).
Click to expand...
which raises the point.....what will extra planetary colonization look like. IE). I was in the first wave. your in the 30th wave - im more Martian than you are.
 
Halifax Tar said:
What about the Roman empire, or the Ottomans, or Moors, or Berber, or Byzantines, or Greeks, or Egyptian, or the Mongols, or Vikings ?

The list is endless.

Everyone has been the winner or the loser in the Empire draw at some point, going after just one reeks of a prejudice to me. It fashionable to want to tare down the west I guess.
Click to expand...
The difference is that there are (in most cases) signed treaties between the First Nations and the Crown outlining the rights and responsibilities of each party to the treaty.

Renegotiating the treaties is one thing but simply abrogating them unilaterally is another thing all together.
 
Kirkhill said:
Robert Heinlein, Jerry Pournelle, Larry Niven, Arthur C. Clarke, Gordon Dickson in the 1960s and 70s.

Enjoy. ;)
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already done for a couple of the author's. im more interested in what will be the reality rather than the prediction. the UN Outer Space Treaty indicates that space is for everyone. doubt that will work out that way.
 
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