Trump administration 2024-2028

[Jarnhamar]

Most Canadians aren’t keen on any of that.

Do you believe having a majority confirs a sense of rightness?

 

[Brad Sallows]

The parasitic hivemind that was originally "defeated" millions of years earlier by an ancient alien civilization, by wiping out all intelligent life in the universe to starve it. It was then accidentally (?) revived and unleashed again by the Covenant, a bunch of alien religious fanatics in their pursuit of the "Great Journey".

Going to be one hell of a lawsuit if Microsoft and Nintendo (the last video game ICE used was Pokemon) decide to team up.

Not the only one. Has anyone told Larry Niven someone partly borrowed the Thrint/Tnuctipun War?

 

[Altair]

tariffs from the US are discouraging companies from doing exactly all of that.

They are.

So you admit they are a volatile bunch currently in place. More reason to increase our exports elsewhere.

Or you know, CUSMA? Absolutely. I’m not sure though that the US can be trusted to maintain any commitments to anything.

Surrender Canada’s sovereignty then.

Got it. Do what they say and let them tariff our economy or anything else they want.

This is exactly Maple MAGA’s position. Most Canadians aren’t keen on any of that.

45 percent of conservatives if Ekos is to be believed.

 

[Remius]

Do you believe having a majority confirs a sense of rightness?

Define rightness.

 

[Lumber]

Riiiiiiight. No-one in Canada uses "MAGA" as a pejorative.

We're not talking about MAGA, we're talking about Maple MAGA, and we've primarily been focusing on its use here, not in Canada in general, but my claim about its non-derogatoryness would apply Nationally I suppose.

 

[Brad Sallows]

tariffs from the US are discouraging companies from doing exactly all of that.

That cannot be remotely true, unless Canadian companies are so bereft of spirit that they cannot envision anything except exporting to the US at their current prices within their current cost structures. Tariffs imposed on US consumers within the US are not reasonably capable of preventing us from improving our own internal trade or pursuing opportunities elsewhere. Trump's tariffs produce a certain amount of economic friction; made-in-Canada policies produce a certain amount, too. Watching Eby recently try to blame years of foolish policy on Trump's tariffs nailed home with indisputable finality that not only are our own governments complicit in economic discouragement, they are also so thoroughly spineless as to try to pass off their own failings as the fault of others.

Back when this all started, there were some think-tank estimates that a 2% of GDP contraction might result. There were also some estimates that between 1% and 2% of GDP might be gained by dropping all inter-provincial trade barriers. A rational thing to do, then, would have been to pull all the barriers, quickly, to offset as much of the potential contraction as possible. That simply hasn't happened. Governments in Canada have their own crony interests to prop up and ideological priors to preserve, and therefore proceed as slowly as possible hoping that the horse will sing due to someone else's efforts. That a few improvements have been made isn't evidence that we've tried very hard.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Got it. Do what they say and let them tariff our economy or anything else they want.

There are a lot of points between "do everything Trump wants" and "pick unnecessary fights". The first is a strawman for Trump critics to beat up when challenged to not do so much of the latter; the latter is just self-destructive stupidity.

 

[Remius]

There are a lot of points between "do everything Trump wants" and "pick unnecessary fights". The first is a strawman for Trump critics to beat up when challenged to not do so much of the latter; the latter is just self-destructive stupidity.

Self destructive stupidity is accepting everything.

The ad was about promoting free trade. There were no insults at all.

Cancelling all trade over it and MAGA apologists here justifying it only highlights that the definition of Maple Maga is accurate.

 

[Brad Sallows]

We're not talking about MAGA, we're talking about Maple MAGA, and we've primarily been focusing on its use here, not in Canada in general, but my claim about its non-derogatoryness would apply Nationally I suppose.

Sure. So if it's not merely a pejorative, there must be some objective, constructive definition of MAGA, so that there can consequently be one of Maple MAGA, so that the latter term can be objectively applied and not merely slung at someone who "sounds like" it fits, ending up in the trash bin with "fascist".

I've mentioned a couple of times that there is an actual sub-faction of US conservativism - "national conservativism", or nat-con - whose adherents describe themselves as such and align with the Trump agenda and manner of conduct (eg. willingness to use any dirty tactic in politics popularized by Democrats and eschewed by all other "decent" conservatives, and probably some new ones of their own making.) A name exists; a vague pejorative is unnecessary.

 

[Remius]

That cannot be remotely true, unless Canadian companies are so bereft of spirit that they cannot envision anything except exporting to the US at their current prices within their current cost structures. Tariffs imposed on US consumers within the US are not reasonably capable of preventing us from improving our own internal trade or pursuing opportunities elsewhere. Trump's tariffs produce a certain amount of economic friction; made-in-Canada policies produce a certain amount, too. Watching Eby recently try to blame years of foolish policy on Trump's tariffs nailed home with indisputable finality that not only are our own governments complicit in economic discouragement, they are also so thoroughly spineless as to try to pass off their own failings as the fault of others.

Tariffs on Canadian goods is exactly discouraging Americans from buying our things. It’s the whole point of them.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Self destructive stupidity is accepting everything.

The ad was about promoting free trade. There were no insults at all.

Sure, it was a 100% accurate reflection of the work from which it was extracted, and besides, no-one could reasonably ever imagine that the truth could be counter-productively provocative. And certainly it was the most constructive possible way to advance that message, at that time and by those means. That so few people are engaged in desperately trying to clean up the political mess and fallout indicates how prudent it was.

 

[Remius]

Sure, it was a 100% accurate reflection of the work from which it was extracted, and besides, no-one could reasonably ever imagine that the truth could be counter-productively provocative. And certainly it was the most constructive possible way to advance that message, at that time and by those means. That so few people are engaged in desperately trying to clean up the political mess and fallout indicates how prudent it was.

Remember when people said to chill out about the 51st state and governor of Canada stuff.

Brad: Chill out. So should they.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Tariffs on Canadian goods is exactly discouraging Americans from buying our things. It’s the whole point of them.

QV wrote "Export O&G, more pipes south, east and west. Develop all other resources for export markets. No counter tariffs. Drop all policy that make it harder to do business in Canada, make it much easier and more profitable."

and you wrote "tariffs from the US are discouraging companies from doing exactly all of that."

It's pretty clear QV wrote about things we could do on our side. Do you mean you weren't referring to Canadian companies, or even any kinds of Canadians, "from doing exactly all of that"?

 

[Remius]

QV wrote "Export O&G, more pipes south, east and west. Develop all other resources for export markets. No counter tariffs. Drop all policy that make it harder to do business in Canada, make it much easier and more profitable."

and you wrote "tariffs from the US are discouraging companies from doing exactly all of that."

It's pretty clear QV wrote about things we could do on our side. Do you mean you weren't referring to Canadian companies, or even any kinds of Canadians, "from doing exactly all of that"?

I’ll be more clear next time to avoid confusion. In relation to the US.

Hope that cleared it up for you.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Remember when people said to chill out about the 51st state and governor of Canada stuff.

Brad: Chill out. So should they.

Please to imagine laughter. I didn't know about this (yet another) latest iteration of Trump-spikes-everyone's-indignation-meters until returning from a few quiet days away from computers. Trump's foolishly upset, and people are upset at Trump that he's foolishly upset, and there's another round of unnecessary collateral damage victims because of Trump's tantrum. All of it avoidable, if anyone in a position of responsibility could remember that Trump is easily provoked and craft their messages less ham-fistedly. There is nothing left but to be amused by people who, after this long, still haven't figured out how to avoid unnecessary damage. Because National Pride, or something.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I’ll be more clear next time to avoid confusion. In relation to the US.

Hope that cleared it up for you.

Yes, it does. In relation to what QV wrote, "in relation to the US" is a pointlessly small set. The domain of things of interest is what we can do in Canada and with countries which are not-the-US.

I'm still confident the USSC is going to yank the pretext for most of the tariffs, particularly those aimed at Canadian exports. That will reward those in the Canadian political establishment who chose to go slow, unfortunately, but whether reforms and changes continue will be instructive.

 

[Remius]

Please to imagine laughter. I didn't know about this (yet another) latest iteration of Trump-spikes-everyone's-indignation-meters until returning from a few quiet days away from computers. Trump's foolishly upset, and people are upset at Trump that he's foolishly upset, and there's another round of unnecessary collateral damage victims because of Trump's tantrum. All of it avoidable, if anyone in a position of responsibility could remember that Trump is easily provoked and craft their messages less ham-fistedly. There is nothing left but to be amused by people who, after this long, still haven't figured out how to avoid unnecessary damage. Because National Pride, or something.

God forbid anyone have National Pride…or something.

Tell me what was offensive about the ad that it merits such a thin skinned response?

 

[Remius]

Yes, it does. In relation to what QV wrote, "in relation to the US" is a pointlessly small set. The domain of things of interest is what we can do in Canada and with countries which are not-the-US.

Agreed. But MAGA Maple is not keen on rapprochement with others.

I'm still confident the USSC is going to yank the pretext for most of the tariffs, particularly those aimed at Canadian exports. That will reward those in the Canadian political establishment who chose to go slow, unfortunately, but whether reforms and changes continue will be instructive.

I hope your confidence pays off.

 

[Navy_Pete]

The commercial was for US voters during MLB world series, not Trump, or the Supreme Court, and was probably pretty effective on some, given Trump Barbara Streisand the shit out of it, and they can see Reagans full address quite easily, which also clearly argues against tariffs.

Fortunately, also inadvertently gave more arguments to the anti tarriff lawsuit going to the Supreme court, where 'hurt feelings from the POTUS' isn't an authorized reason from the US legislation to enact tariffs for National Security, and justifies them being illegal under US law.

 

[Brad Sallows]

God forbid anyone have National Pride…or something.

Tell me what was offensive about the ad that it merits such a thin skinned response?

No idea, but it's irrelevant. It's not me the people angry at Trump have to worry about provoking. It's Trump, so it's Trump's skin thickness they have to worry about. Sometimes Finland* has to give a shit about what Russia* thinks.

*Many more candidates for the analogy, including that perennial favourite, the girl in the short red dress who wanders through bad neighbourhoods. The universe isn't fair, and people ought to meet that cold reality head-on.