- Reaction score
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Trump administration 2024-2028
- Thread starter dimsum
- Start date
It doesn’t have to be a single agency, that’s an artificial constraint at this moment there are multiple police services deployed within LA. Between ICE, HSI, FBI, Marshals, CBP and a plethora of others, there exist a lot of federal law enforcement who can contribute bodies to a joint force, all the moreso with tasks as straightforward as “you guard this section of the property line”. Combined operations happen so utterly regularly that it’s not remarkable in the least. That’s not a ‘hand wave’, that’s just ‘our profession does this regularly’.
Trump’s framing is absolutely not irrelevant. It’s a big part of the fuel being dumped from the gas can.
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To believe that, I would have to be able to imagine that if the security were provided by other LE agencies, there would be significantly less outrage. People are outraged because laws are being enforced, and in CA/LA they're not used to those laws being enforced that much, and are not used to low tolerance for violence. The military angle is being exploited to fan the outrage.
If you want to pretend this event exists in a frictionless vacuum, and not in the larger context of Trump constantly pushing boundaries on how he can wield federal executive power and try to stomp on the independence of institutions and other levels of government, go nuts. It’s disingenuous as hell, but have at ‘er.
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Having seen only a grainy photo of the LEO in the background who fired the round, I was unsure what agency he belonged to when I looked through CA Penal Code as to who § 835a applied. The reporting since id him as LAPD. However my perusal of the code brought this to my attention.
It is very extensive about who is, and is not, a peace officer in California or who can exercise limited state LE functions under the state's Penal Code in certain circumstances. As for federal employees:
"830.8. (a) Federal criminal investigators and law enforcement officers are not California peace officers, but may exercise the powers of arrest of a peace officer in any of the following circumstances:
. . .
(b) Duly authorized federal employees who comply with the training requirements set forth in Section 832 are peace officers when they are engaged in enforcing applicable state or local laws on property owned or possessed by the United States government, or on any street, sidewalk, or property adjacent thereto, and with the written consent of the sheriff or the chief of police, respectively, in whose jurisdiction the property is situated."
"830.85. Notwithstanding any other law, United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers and United States Customs and Border Protection officers are not California peace officers."
The specific exclusion of ICE and CPB dates from 2017.
California Bans ICE From Masquerading as Police Officers
www.courthousenews.com
- Reaction score
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Of course he's pushing boundaries. How often have I written here that boundary-pushing by other people was going to lead to more boundary-pushing? That score-settling will lead to more score-settling? I'm not pretending it's in a frictionless vacuum; I repeatedly stress that how people behave politically sets the tone for future behaviour. "Frictionless vacuum" better describes people who thought it was okey-dokey when prior administrations pushed boundaries as if they enjoyed a unique right to do so without consequences, as if the other players would also never use the same tactics for political advantage. As Mitch McConnell said on a particular matter, "You'll regret this, and you may regret this a lot sooner than you think." The shorter popular version is "FAFO".
Anyone learn anything yet, I wonder? I suspect Democrats will have to suffer good and hard for a long while yet. Strap in, the administration is not even 6 months old. Trump is going to (successfully) goad a lot more people into dropping their masks, and every time that happens it'll give his popularity a bump.
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Brad, I think you are missing the Venn Diagram where a significant portion the MAGA supporters are diametrically opposed to US Military personnel conducting operations (even physically site security if it is off post ) CONUS.
This is where you get things like the Army of Texas and California…
Because no one at the grass roots actually likes Fed Gov overreach even when it’s against the other side.
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Better.
*****
Day-one riots/protests are handled by on duty law enforcement. Stretching into subsequent days it becomes a mutual aid, re-scheduling re-deployment leadership issue. LA County has about 24.300 municipal sworn members and deputies, not counting surrounding counties and CHP. I think only the Trump administration has said they are overwhelmed. Then again, this is the same bunch that wanted to withhold federal disaster aid to California until they changed their Democrat ways.
Ooh, I don’t know Kev. A lot of people seem perfectly prepared to not just excuse but to encourage fed government overreach if ‘the other’ it’s levied against are different enough from them. I absolutely know there are a lot of very patriotic (and some, frankly, quite radical) strict constitutionalists. However, the MAGA movement seems to have an abundance of lickspittles who will cheer on (so far) just about anything their side cares to throw at people or groups they oppose. I think it would be pretty easy to find a fair number of people willing to extend some of the current anti-immigrant excesses to politically opposed citizens, or to increase further still the excesses used against immigrants. I see no reason to think the American population is any less susceptible than any other to the mass and sudden expressions of very violent hate that recent history has seen elsewhere.
Every new excess is a test of “what can we get away with this week, and how can we prime the pump for the next little step?”
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He’s losing a lot of right wing veterans groups.
Those are the folks that will matter if things get uglier. Keep in mind we have a lot of Philippine, and Latin American veterans.
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I'm aware. I'm also aware that nothing Trump is doing right now is really eating into his popularity. I'm still waiting for tariffs to create enough dissatisfaction to matter; I thought a couple of months of higher prices would be enough. I, in company with many, have underestimated the depth and scope of "pissed-off" after what has happened the past 8 years. I read about it and I can see the US from their viewpoints, but words on a screen don't convey the level of anger at the lies, hypocrisy, double standards, self-dealing, anarcho-tyranny, etc. No sooner does one pain point recede than another emerges. Recently it was media trying to run away from their appalling irresponsible collusion in obfuscating Biden's infirmity. Now it's attempts to hinder immigration enforcement. Few at whom the anger is directed ever apologize or offer meaningful concessions; instead, they try to defend or squirm away from every shitty thing they and the politicians they support ever did - they fight every battle.
That anger buys Trump latitude when he does things even some of his supporters would ordinarily reject. This is obvious. It would be easy to fix. But they don't.
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The federals can only be overwhelmed if they are understaffed and unsupported by locals. Local support depends on mayors and governors. There can be a wide range of effectiveness, from work-to-rule to spirit-of-the-letter.
There's an important factor that people may be overlooking. If US policy resembles ours, once the federal authority commits armed services they can't be seen to fail. Whether or not early deployment was done to force this requirement, it is nevertheless in effect.
A rational thing to do would be for locals to always support federals, to pre-empt this kind of situation from ever arising.
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Ever since the end of the Civil War theoretically settled Federal supremacy, State’s have been trying to push their autonomy as far as they can.
Some states are diametrically opposed to Federal powers, either due to political differences, or just because they’re naturally bent towards independence or individuality.
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I never understood how he had veterans groups on his side to begin with. The man is anti-military to the core. Insulting combat vets, very likely faked his medical to avoid doing his service in Vietnam, pardoning war criminals and then ordering the military to take them back, etc.
QV
Army.ca Fixture
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You get the daily award for incorrect takes.
I guess if you believed every media lie since 2016 it would make sense you have this view.
Haggis
Army.ca Fixture
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Form what I've been able to find, CA municipal police are all in blue, while SD and CHP are all in tan uniforms.
Similar to here where, for example, under the Aviation Security Regulations 2012 (SOR 2011-318) CBSA BSOs are only considered to be peace officers while conducting immigration functions, but not customs. This precludes them from being armed as a matter of course in most major airport terminals, where immigration activities are conducted, but not on the aprons where customs activities are conducted. Confusing? Yes, in a very Canadian way.
Their exclusion is different from the example I cited above as it is retaliatory against Trump whereas ours is a carry over from before CBSA was armed (or even came into being, with the split functions of Canada Customs and Immigration Canada being merged only in 2003).The specific exclusion of ICE and CPB dates from 2017.
California Bans ICE From Masquerading as Police Officers
Or how MPs, RCMP, CN/CP rail police are all ‘peace officers’ for federal statutes, but don’t have provincial statute authority in Ontario for, eg, traffic offences, mental health act, etc. Nor do they come under provincial oversight for misconduct complaints, or serious injury use of force situations. No surprise there are similar divides in the U.S.
Oof. Maybe a 40mm sponge round? But basically you don’t want any of those options in the face.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Fossil
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Definitely a FAFO moment... and a damned good shot IMHO