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Trump administration 2024-2028

KevinB said:
That definitely did not help. However I’ve had an opportunity to discuss this with a number of folks over beers from various Armies. The generally consensus is that US Military drill only looks good in small batches.
Silent drill teams etc. Basically anything platoon and smaller.
TOG and the USMC teams are good examples and the uniforms help on that.

Commonwealth drill is significantly sharper for larger formations and especially for parades. The emphasis of footwork crashing down tends to distract from minor missteps etc.
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I don't think that's it, Kevin. American drill is especially good for what it does which is its simple and works well for large formations of troops who haven't been drilled to death. It's an outcropping of the US military's general attitude that: "parade square drill isn't the sign of a professional soldier, its what we do in the field that matters."

Any small drill team that practices for weeks for an event will look good even from the most slovenly of armies.

The drill for trooping the colours is antiquated, designed to manoeuvre forces in 1800s close formations. - Really! Who needs to do a right form for anything anymore - whether on the move or at the halt? It's designed to make people appreciate the ability of individuals to act as part of a unit. You don't need to stamp feet, but you need to be in step or in sync in other motions.

You want to see Brit drill done to the ridiculous, watch Indian or Pakistani troops some time . . . or any of the Brit based Caribbean or African forces.

The difference between good US drill and poor drill is founded on marching in step and looking like a unit with pride as opposed to shambling along as a group of individuals who look like many of them would rather be somewhere else than.

Blackadder1916 said:
It might have something to do with the onion tied to my belt, but when the only uniform you ever wear (even for ceremonial occasions) is a shapeless, yet comfortable, set of pyjamas and your footwear is essentially a pair of sneakers (which won't aggravate bone spurs) then you will walk the same way that you shuffled around a mall when in high school. US drill is casual anyway compared to those who have a British tradition, but they do have units that, in their way, perform as flawlessly as the Brigade of Guards. At the beginning of that parade, it could be seen in the 3rd Infantry Regiment (The Old Guard) and US Army Band contingent. But they, like public duties units in other countries, practice, practice, practice. And their attention to detail in uniforms may have something to do with it. My impression was that the units that wore leather footwear (or made of something that pretended to be leather) stayed in step better. Other than the Old Guard, they were mostly those wearing 'some' of the historical uniforms and those from the service academies.
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Leather shoes and horse shoe cleats are a great thing for a soldier to hear in order to get the rhythm of the march when its otherwise quiet. Troops in softer gear get the same thing from having a band play or even a single drummer beating the pace. That's an organizational flaw. Who can march properly when the speakers are blaring out rock music? Honestly WTF?

I don't want to de-emphasize practice. You're bang on - the longer the practice under properly motivated NCOs, the better the "performance" is. Watch a video of US Marines at their graduation parade some time. I have zero idea how much the folks yesterday were picked and trained for this parade. It seems like several hundred from each division attended. A division has some 15,000 folks in its. Surely out of 15,000, the respective command sergeants major could have selected a few dozen from each unit that could march and hold a few rehearsals on how to march as a unit.
Blackadder1916 said:
I recall that several months ago on these means similar criticism leveled at the parade performance of some CAF units during Remembrance Day ceremonies.
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Yup. I agree. We can and should do a lot better.

I tend to think we have a problem in that we put priorities on everything and we're currently at a point where we do not want to spend time or money on looking good on parade. IMHO parades are like any military function; you need to train for it to get good. Priorities determine where you spend your time and money.

OTOH, it shouldn't take long to organize, train for and conduct a simple parade. And let's face it most of our - and the US parade yesterday - are simple parades. Change from line to column with a simple turn and march in step. That's not rocket science by any stretch of the imagination . . . especially with a proper band. Attitude has a lot to do with it. Back in my onion on the belt days I recall that our parades were of two types: those where we couldn't give a shit no matter how hard the RSM drilled us - change of command being a simple example - or those where we wanted to strut our stuff and impress the audience - freedom of the city parades being one. Like anything; you have to grab the morale of the troops to want to be there and do their best. That's missing all too often these days.

🍻
 
RangerRay said:
What the hell was that?
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They look they all just pooped themselves.
Jarnhamar said:
It might have something to do with armored vehicles rumbling around and rock and roll playing in the background.
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Perhaps. Non-martial music during a parade is just dumb. If you can't have a band for every x number of troop formations so they are in earshot, at least have somebody calling cadence and/or, as mentioned, a band near the reviewing stand.

Blackadder1916 said:
I recall that several months ago on these means similar criticism leveled at the parade performance of some CAF units during Remembrance Day ceremonies.
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Yup. As well they should have been, but at least those folks looked like they were marching - just not in the right order or at the same time. These troops looked completely disinterested. I get that the US parade style is more relaxed than the Commonwealth-based ones, but I think even "amble" is a bit of an overstatement; more like a mosey.
 
For comparison it's one month until Bastille Day and the spectacle that kindled Trump's interest in parades will be on display. Though I've had the opportunity only once, years ago, to be in Paris for the "Défilé militaire du 14 juillet", it's quite the event. Not only on the day but the evening before. However, I expect increased security these days have dampened some of the festivities leading up to the parade.

Hopefully, the French won't have robot dogs marching in the parade. That was creepy in yesterday's stroll.
 
FJAG said:
I don't think that's it, Kevin. American drill is especially good for what it does which is its simple and works well for large formations of troops who haven't been drilled to death. It's an outcropping of the US military's general attitude that: "parade square drill isn't the sign of a professional soldier, its what we do in the field that matters."

Any small drill team that practices for weeks for an event will look good even from the most slovenly of armies.

The drill for trooping the colours is antiquated, designed to manoeuvre forces in 1800s close formations. - Really! Who needs to do a right form for anything anymore - whether on the move or at the halt? It's designed to make people appreciate the ability of individuals to act as part of a unit. You don't need to stamp feet, but you need to be in step or in sync in other motions.

You want to see Brit drill done to the ridiculous, watch Indian or Pakistani troops some time . . . or any of the Brit based Caribbean or African forces.

The difference between good US drill and poor drill is founded on marching in step and looking like a unit with pride as opposed to shambling along as a group of individuals who look like many of them would rather be somewhere else than.


Leather shoes and horse shoe cleats are a great thing for a soldier to hear in order to get the rhythm of the march when its otherwise quiet. Troops in softer gear get the same thing from having a band play or even a single drummer beating the pace. That's an organizational flaw. Who can march properly when the speakers are blaring out rock music? Honestly WTF?

I don't want to de-emphasize practice. You're bang on - the longer the practice under properly motivated NCOs, the better the "performance" is. Watch a video of US Marines at their graduation parade some time. I have zero idea how much the folks yesterday were picked and trained for this parade. It seems like several hundred from each division attended. A division has some 15,000 folks in its. Surely out of 15,000, the respective command sergeants major could have selected a few dozen from each unit that could march and hold a few rehearsals on how to march as a unit.

Yup. I agree. We can and should do a lot better.

I tend to think we have a problem in that we put priorities on everything and we're currently at a point where we do not want to spend time or money on looking good on parade. IMHO parades are like any military function; you need to train for it to get good. Priorities determine where you spend your time and money.

OTOH, it shouldn't take long to organize, train for and conduct a simple parade. And let's face it most of our - and the US parade yesterday - are simple parades. Change from line to column with a simple turn and march in step. That's not rocket science by any stretch of the imagination . . . especially with a proper band. Attitude has a lot to do with it. Back in my onion on the belt days I recall that our parades were of two types: those where we couldn't give a shit no matter how hard the RSM drilled us - change of command being a simple example - or those where we wanted to strut our stuff and impress the audience - freedom of the city parades being one. Like anything; you have to grab the morale of the troops to want to be there and do their best. That's missing all too often these days.

🍻
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Best part of the annual Republic Day Parade (other than the wild floats that come after the military portion) in India are the years when the Para's take part and march like this, wearing a uniform designed to be worn when serving in the Himalayas.


Entirely just to prove their physical prowess over the others, for the entire 3-4km stretch of road.
 
Blackadder1916 said:
For comparison it's one month until Bastille Day and the spectacle that kindled Trump's interest in parades will be on display. Though I've had the opportunity only once, years ago, to be in Paris for the "Défilé militaire du 14 juillet", it's quite the event. Not only on the day but the evening before. However, I expect increased security these days have dampened some of the festivities leading up to the parade.

Hopefully, the French won't have robot dogs marching in the parade. That was creepy in yesterday's stroll.
Click to expand...
I thought the 'Timeline Theme" of the parade was actually a really cool idea.

The different uniforms and vehicles used in the different conflicts the US Army has fought in, presented as a historical living timeline as they marched/drove by - from the past through to the future - for me anyway, was a very pleasant creative surprise :)

The creepy little robot dogs was a bit unexpected, but I suppose fit the theme of the near future.




What are those things supposed to do anyway??

(Like do machine guns or flamethrowers pop out of them? Do they go into rabid attack mode & rip enemy troops to shreds?)
 
Just because its relevant to Trump & events from over the weekend.




Granted I'm just catching up on the last few days worth of news...but I'm glad the protesting/rioting situation seems to be less chaotic than I was expecting

Compared to the BLM protests from a few years back, I haven't read about any overly crazy stuff happening (yet...)
 
Although at best, American drill looks like a smart walk compared to Commonwealth drill, I was surprised by the marching in that parade. Granted the loud rock music and annoying announcer didn’t help keep the troops on step, but I expected shoulders back, chin up, and looking proud. It was like the Sergeant Major just came out and said to them “Ok troops, just don’t put your hands in your pockets, ok?”
 
FJAG said:
You want to see Brit drill done to the ridiculous, watch Indian or Pakistani troops some time . . . or any of the Brit based Caribbean or African forces.
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Like this border ceremony on the India-Pakistan border. It’s like if the Household Division did a bunch of meth and Red Bull, then went nuts in a football stadium full of cheering fans.

 
RangerRay said:
Like this border ceremony on the India-Pakistan border. It’s like if the Household Division did a bunch of meth and Red Bull, then went nuts in a football stadium full of cheering fans.

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What I find tremendous about the whole Wagah border crossing thing is that here you have two seriously hostile forces who have gone to great lengths to mutually produce a highly choreographed ceremony played out before tens of thousands of spectators on a daily basis.

Amazing.

🍻
 
The new rules, obtained by the Guardian, also apply to psychologists, dentists and a host of other occupations. They have already gone into effect in at least some VA medical centers.

Medical staff are still required to treat veterans regardless of race, color, religion and sex, and all veterans remain entitled to treatment. But individual workers are now free to decline to care for patients based on personal characteristics not explicitly prohibited by federal law.

Language requiring healthcare professionals to care for veterans regardless of their politics and marital status has been explicitly eliminated.
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www.theguardian.com

‘Extremely disturbing and unethical’: new rules allow VA doctors to refuse to treat Democrats, unmarried veterans

Trump order allows VA staff to decline providing healthcare to patients based on political affiliation or marital status
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

The EO allowing for this:

www.whitehouse.gov

Defending Women From Gender Ideology Extremism And Restoring Biological Truth To The Federal Government

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including section 7301 of title 5, United
www.whitehouse.gov www.whitehouse.gov
 
HavokFour said:
www.theguardian.com

‘Extremely disturbing and unethical’: new rules allow VA doctors to refuse to treat Democrats, unmarried veterans

Trump order allows VA staff to decline providing healthcare to patients based on political affiliation or marital status
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

The EO allowing for this:

www.whitehouse.gov

Defending Women From Gender Ideology Extremism And Restoring Biological Truth To The Federal Government

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including section 7301 of title 5, United
www.whitehouse.gov www.whitehouse.gov
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Doesn't that also mean VA doctors could refuse to treat someone wearing a MAGA hat or in a traditional marriage?

Holy shit these guys are dumb.
 
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