Turmoil in Libya (2011) and post-Gaddafi blowback

[Kat Stevens]

Sounds rough.

 

[OldSolduer]

Sounds rough.

:sarcasm: ?

I bet is was.......

 

[dogger1936]

Boo hoo Kandahar stories.

As far as I'm concerned I like the fact the Canadian press does release this stuff. Hopefully (In my mind at least) this always ensures govt and military officials are using the most cost effective means. It seems all cost for hotels was legit and required due to the operational environment.

These "KAF" stories of SNR NCO's stuck three to a room ( The horror!!! Having to wait for the other two to go to Green bean to get some alone time) make me ill.

My last tour I didn't get a haircut for 5 months and pooped in those silver bags 90% of the time. And I wouldn't have traded it for anything; I enjoyed it. It's the army after all; pretty well how I expected it to be. We didn't have access to razors one time for a couple weeks which made me look like a slightly out of shape special forces guy.

I like having my CAS well rested. As long as they are on station dropping pretty little things out of the sky on places I want them to do so; I'm happy.

It seems from the media anyway the pilots and crew got rounds on target with little collateral; I'll take that as my uneducated guess they did a fine job. They followed the guidelines laid out for them as aircrew (rest etc) and did their mission. BZ.

 

[MJP]

Boo hoo Kandahar stories.

As far as I'm concerned I like the fact the Canadian press does release this stuff. Hopefully (In my mind at least) this always ensures govt and military officials are using the most cost effective means. It seems all cost for hotels was legit and required due to the operational environment.

These "KAF" stories of SNR NCO's stuck three to a room ( The horror!!! Having to wait for the other two to go to Green bean to get some alone time) make me ill.

OZ was talking about the pre-training not KAF.  People not really reading make me ill...

 

[dogger1936]

OZ was talking about the pre-training not KAF.  People not really reading make me ill...

Oh so it's Petawawa stories. I apologize. Replace Green Bean with the mess or Greco.

 

[MJP]

Oh so it's Petawawa stories. I apologize. Replace Green Bean with the mess or Greco.

True either way you still sound like an @ss

 

[dogger1936]

True either way you still sound like an @ss

Complaining that a Snr NCO had to live with his peer's in a slightly small room and that it should be brought to media attention doesn't turn your "be an ass" switch on I guess. It does with me.

 

[MJP]

Complaining that a Snr NCO had to live with his peer's in a slightly small room and that it should be brought to media attention doesn't turn your "be an ***" switch on I guess. It does with me.

No you didn't comprehend the reasoning behind his post and the subsequent explanations from other forum members.  But rather turned it into yet another inside/outside the wire "I had it so much harder" rant.  I had you on ignore for a while.  Time methinks to turn you back on as I see you haven't changed much.

 

[dogger1936]

No you didn't comprehend the reasoning behind his post and the subsequent explanations from other forum members.  But rather turned it into yet another inside/outside the wire "I had it so much harder" rant.  I had you on ignore for a while.  Time methinks to turn you back on as I see you haven't changed much.

:boring:
It's far from a inside outside the wire rant. I think we had it rather easy and enjoyed it; infact I made a reference to that. 3 meals a day and a sleeping bag regardless; whats to hate about that.

Ignore away.

 

[NavyShooter]

Apparently, there is to be some sort of OP Mobile awards thing at Stad on the 16th of November.

Alas, I'm on leave.  Maybe they'll send me the medal via 1000 miler....

 

[old medic]

‘I begged them to kill me’: Wounded Libyan freedom fighters find more than just medical care in Toronto

Adrian Brijbassi, National Post Staff
26 Dec 2012
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/12/26/ayoub-badi-libyan-freedom-fighters-toronto-canada/

Sixteen months ago, Ayoub Badi was so beaten up, sad, hopeless and sick with the relentless pain only torture can inflict he begged for his own death. These days, he’s in Toronto wishing for a date.

Mr. Badi is alive. And, like the other wounded Libyan freedom fighters who’ve recently arrived in downtown Toronto, he is eager to enjoy living. The war veterans are in Canada to receive medical care for injuries incurred during the 2011 revolution that led to the overthrow of dictator Muammar Gaddafi. They’re also determined to make the most of their experience.

They’ve discovered the Masjid mosque on Dundas Street, halal grocery stores, a restaurant that serves Afghan food similar to Libyan cuisine, and a taste for Burger King.

“For the past few years, Gaddafi had become unbearable, killing people in huge numbers and torturing people for their political opinion. We couldn’t allow him to do it anymore. It was time it stopped,” Mr. Badi said in Arabic before detailing the monumental price he paid in the revolution.

On Feb.19, 2011, Mr. Badi, a student, joined the uprising that had begun two days earlier. Despite not having any military training, he and his fellow shabab (or “boys”) in Misrata, a city on the Mediterranean Sea, battled well-armed Gaddafi forces. Mr. Badi’s brother was killed and he was captured after being shot on March 28. He was held until Aug. 20, the day the rebels overtook Tripoli, Libya’s capital.

“I told the men beating me that I wished they would just kill me. I begged them to kill me, but they said, ‘No.’ They preferred me alive so they could keep doing what they were doing.” Electric shock was used on Mr. Badi during his nearly five months in captivity. His nose and cheekbones were broken. His ribs cracked. As he told his story, the 24-year-old with soft, brown eyes often spoke with a shy smile that connoted both incredulity over his ordeal and a sense of resolve that has amazed his new neighbours in Toronto.

“The spirit of these people is unbelievable. They are so uplifting,” said Harvey Brown, a concierge of the building in the Entertainment District where seven of the freedom fighters reside. The Libyans are cheerful and eager to practice their English. “If you have a bad day, all you have to do is look at these guys and think about what they’ve been through and you can’t stay sad for long.”

The Red Cross contributed funds for Mr. Badi’s nine previous surgeries — which included repairing those broken bones — in Turkey and Belarus. The Libyan government is paying for his knee surgery at Toronto General hospital as well as the medical care for the other injured soldiers, some of whom fought in Benghazi, where the revolution began.

Soon after the defeat of Gaddafi, Libya established a transitional council that budgeted for the medical care of the victorious rebels. In most cases, the initial treatment was completed in Europe and North Africa but earlier this year the soldiers began to arrive in Canada.....................

Story continues at the link:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/12/26/ayoub-badi-libyan-freedom-fighters-toronto-canada/

 

[57Chevy]

Terror threat in Benghazi: Canada urges citizens to leave

The Canadian Press

OTTAWA — Canada has joined several European countries in urging its citizens to immediately leave the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi.

In an advisory posted Thursday on its website, Foreign Affairs Canada also warned against non-essential travel to the country because of the fragile political situation there.

It says there is a “heightened risk of terrorism throughout Libya, including in Benghazi.”

Earlier, Britain, Germany and the Netherlands warned of an imminent threat against westerners, days after a deadly hostage crisis in neighbouring Algeria.

European officials said schools were among the potential targets.

In its advisory, Foreign Affairs warns “terrorist attacks could occur at any time and could target areas frequented by expatriates and foreign travellers.”


                                            Article is shared with provisions of The Copyright Act

 

[Edward Campbell]

Former Ontario Premier and interim leader of the Liberal Party of Canada, Bob Rae reminds of why intervention, even with the best of intentions, is just the first step in this article whch is reproduced under the fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/in-libya-and-beyond-interventions-just-the-start/article12934330/#dashboard/follows/

In Libya and beyond, intervention’s just the start

BOB RAE
Tripoli — Special to The Globe and Mail

Published Wednesday, Jul. 03 2013

Even at a seaside hotel, the distant sounds of guns from a militia clash in southern Tripoli break the midnight silence.

The West and the United Nations have little difficulty spending billions on the military side of intervention. When it comes to bringing down a Saddam Hussein or a Moammar Gadhafi, cash and troops are no problem. But the end of such repressive regimes, as costly as this end can be in money and human lives, is just the beginning of the struggle for security and greater democracy.

Writing in the time of the English Civil War, with Europe still reeling from the violence, torture, rape and sheer mayhem of the Thirty Years’ War, Thomas Hobbes made a simple point. The war of “all against all,” where life was “nasty, brutish and short,” had to end for real life to begin. Security – the monopoly of weapons, order and authority in some kind of sovereign state – was the essential precondition for other pursuits. Future political thinkers would come to worry about those other pursuits and the importance of freedom, pluralism and the rule of law. But Hobbes’s essential point was that chaos must end before other things begin.

Libya has made a good case in point. The country of six million people suffered through a brutal dictatorship for more than 40 years. Col. Gadhafi’s regime benefited from an annual $60-billion cash flow from oil and gas, but he did not invest in people, institutions or infrastructure, and his leaving was accompanied by much suffering and destruction.

In particular, the militias so heavily armed in the effort to defeat him have not disbanded. They have moved into organized crime and extortion, “protection services” and fighting for turf like so many gangland desperados.

The interim government, which succeeded a transitional government, has few levers and little power. The central institutions of state, such as the army, are small, poorly trained and poorly equipped. The General National Council, the temporary legislature body that hopes to create a constitutional committee (that will in turn write a constitution and then have elections) is poorly resourced and staffed and argues among itself.

Aid money is drying up, because governance assistance is the weak sibling of every Western government. But things fall apart when the centre cannot hold. And the consequences of this would be serious indeed – a failed state on the shores of the Mediterranean, unable to police its borders or provide for its people.

It is a simple lesson, yet to be learned: We need to deal with the consequences of military intervention with the same focus, determination and resources we have given to the destruction of bad actors. We can’t leave the job less than half done.

If the militias are allowed to persist as separate power bases, and are not either disbanded or included in the army and police – and then trained effectively – the central government’s ability to provide even minimal services will simply not be there. This requires further political reconciliation, persuasion and the capacity to carry out the necessary plan. The UN and those who decided Col. Gadhafi had to go still have work to do. The cameras may have left, but the task remains.

Bob Rae is working with the National Democratic Institute in Libya.

This is, of course, a plea for more and more and more Western help; but ...

    1. The US led West is sick and tired of bailing out failed states;

    2. The US led West, with manifold problems of its own, doesn't have the capacity to bail out failed states; and

    3. I hope the US led West is, however slowly, coming to the conclusion that failed and failing states must take their own destinies in their own hands and help themselves - painful and bloody though DIY will be.

Mr. Rae, very correctly, says, "... things fall apart when the centre cannot hold. And the consequences of this would be serious indeed – a failed state on the shores of the Mediterranean, unable to police its borders or provide for its people." That's all true but Italy and France, etc, can, if they really want, police their own borders and several countries of the US led West have serious trouble providing for their own people.

 

[tomahawk6]

A Libyan memo is being circulated concerning the confessions of 6 Egyptians arrested for the attack on the US mission in Benghazi.According to the memo the Muslim Brotherhood and Morsi were linked to the terror cell.

 

[OldSolduer]

A Libyan memo is being circulated concerning the confessions of 6 Egyptians arrested for the attack on the US mission in Benghazi.According to the memo the Muslim Brotherhood and Morsi were linked to the terror cell.

How authentic is this?

 

[medicineman]

And my Arabic reading ability really sucks - anyone know what it says?

 

[Kat Stevens]

I only got the first two lines, but it seems to say;

There once was a man from Benghazi,
who got his arse stuck in the khazi...

the rest is written in an accent I can't read..... ;D

 

[tomahawk6]

Authentic.Written as an interdepartmental memo from the Libyan National Security offices in Tripoli to the Ministry of the Interior.
Written solely as a perfunctory after-action report as the results of the Libyan investigation in the events of that night.
It was prepared by Mahmoud Ibrahim Sharif, the Director of National Security of Libya.

 

[CougarKing]

ISIS's Libya franchise strikes again:

Reuters

Foreigners seized by Islamic State in Libya: Austria

VIENNA (Reuters) - Islamic State militants in Libya seized a group of foreigners at the al-Ghani oilfield last week, a spokesman for the Austrian foreign ministry said citing "secure information" on Monday, adding that they were alive when taken.

There has been no sign since of the nine oil workers from Austria, the Czech republic, Bangladesh, the Philippines and at least one African country who went missing, the spokesman said.

"We know that they were not injured when they were transported away from the al-Ghani oilfield," the spokesman said, adding Austria had information the group was taken by Islamic State militants.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[tomahawk6]

Mount a rescue op to get all foreigners out.Libya cannot protect the workers and a pullout will shut down their oil/gas fields.Maybe that will get their attention.