U.K. General Election/Government, 4 Jul 2024 - ?

[HavokFour]

No UK PM has served a full term since brexit.

I wonder why that is?

Right, because without the EU they are functionally broke. Too broke to afford to maintain services, too broke to raise taxes, but the public want their services and dont want higher taxes.

Best of luck to andy burnham, but he's going to be the latest one to try to govern the ungovernable.

Was about to say, you can see it clearly right when things started unravelling in 2016 with the referendum.

 

[Altair]

Was about to say, you can see a clearly right when things started unravelling in 2016 with the referendum.

Yup, between covid and Brexit, the UK model broke. It wasn't an empire anymore, not really, but within the EU it was the financial hub. Greater london drove the economy, because how much capital moved through it.

After Brexit, that model broke, covid drove up debtloads, and now it's in FO mode.

6 PMs in 7 years. What a disaster.

 

[QV]

The EU led to the migrant disaster which contributed heavily to what happened in the Independent Rape Gang Inquiry Report.

Terry Newman: U.K. grooming gang report details horrific child exploitation

Will politicians have the courage to act?

nationalpost.com

The UK is perfectly capably of functioning as a country provided it's not screwing itself over with progressive socialist policy.

 

[Czech_pivo]

It's an interesting reflection on the differences between our two "Westminster" approaches to parliament. Over the course of the 14 years from David Cameron's election in 2010, the Tories ran through 5 PMs, despite having majority governments for most of that time. Canada hasn't seen anything like that for a party in office since Sir John A died and it took 4 different leaders to finish up the rest of his term, the first of which died in office.

The big difference I think is the relative power of the backbenches in the UK. With so many MPs in the UK it's impossible to buy them all off with cabinet/PS/committee chair jobs, leaving a large and potentially unruly body of MPs to try and manage if things aren't going well for the government. For Starmer that meant continuously having to backtrack on any policy approach to fixing the UK's problems that didn't pass the left wing sniff test of much of the Labour backbench. Same with the Tory PMs in reverse.

We've had factions in our parties vying for power of course, think Paul Martin vs Chretien or John Turner vs PET for sitting government examples. Or Mulroney vs Clark and everyone vs Deif for the Tories in opposition. But we don't have the kind of formal mechanisms for backbenchers to force out a leader that the Brits have. At least we didn't until the Reform Act, which only the Tories have used to oust Erin O'Toole, and of course they were in opposition.

It will be interesting to see going forward if more of the federal parties start to make use of the Reform Act to give their MPs this kind of power.

With our Cabinet sizes running about 25% larger than the average UK government cabinet (30-40 Canada vs 20-30 UK) and our need for about 175 MP's for a majority, you've about about a 20ish% chance in Canada for being a CM vs the 326 MP's at a minimum in the UK. This translates to be about a less than 10% chance of being a CM in the UK.

 

[Czech_pivo]

It is too soon to see of Carney will experience a back bench revolt but the murmurs are there. It must make some of Trudeau's leftovers stifle their so called principles to be part of Carneys government. I have had some great fun with my Hardcore Liberal friends and family members by teasing them that the Harper second term being implemented by Carney seems to have very broad support.

Would a Trudeau have bought 65,402 AR-derived Assault rifles?
Would Trudeau have reduced the Women's Issues department budget from 486 Million to under 80?
Trudeau would have kicked Submarine questions down the street through 2035 if he was still around.
Climate anyone?, and Pipelines for all.

I thank God almost daily that the majority of those ill-fated experiments are dead and gone.

 

[Altair]

The EU led to the migrant disaster which contributed heavily to what happened in the Independent Rape Gang Inquiry Report.

Terry Newman: U.K. grooming gang report details horrific child exploitation

Will politicians have the courage to act?

nationalpost.com

The UK is perfectly capably of functioning as a country provided it's not screwing itself over with progressive socialist policy.

Yet the conservatives churned through Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak post brexit.

Yeah, those socialists...

Meanwhile, those conservatives have had 6-10 percent slower GDP growth post brexit than their european peers.

A decade of Brexit: Britain falls behind peers in trade and growth

Economic analysis shows UK GDP per capita grew up to 10% less than similar nations as firms froze spending and productivity slipped.View on euronews

ca.finance.yahoo.com

We estimate that by the start of 2025, the UK economy was approximately 8% smaller than it would have been without Brexit, based on macro data, and 6% smaller using firm-level micro data," the study said.

The authors describe a prolonged period in which political volatility and shifting commercial rules froze or delayed decisions that normally drive growth. Instead of investing and hiring, firms braced for the next announcement or change in trading conditions.

Across the country, investment plans were shelved and managerial time was spent on risk assessments and Brexit preparation rather than developing new products or expanding operations, researchers said.

“Investment is estimated to have been 12–18% lower, employment 3–4% lower, and productivity also 3–4% lower than it would have been if the UK had not voted to leave the EU,” the study claimed.

Those darn socialists....

Do you do any research before you post things?

 

[QV]

Yet the conservatives churned through Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak post brexit.

Yeah, those socialists...

Meanwhile, those conservatives have had 6-10 percent slower GDP growth post brexit than their european peers.

A decade of Brexit: Britain falls behind peers in trade and growth

Economic analysis shows UK GDP per capita grew up to 10% less than similar nations as firms froze spending and productivity slipped.View on euronews

ca.finance.yahoo.com

Those darn socialists....

Do you do any research before you post things?

Your recent positions are:

-Buy new 4th gen fighters, Gripens, to compete with enemy 5th gen in peer to peer war
-Nothing wrong with importing Islamic call to prayer broadcast throughout a Canadian city and if you disagree you're an islamophobe
-Disconnect from worlds most free and largest market right next door, and get into bed with less compatible countries (China) who are actively trying to hurt us.
-Hurray US lost the war to Iran (they didn't but that's your position)

I'm quite comfortable in my complete opposition to your way of thinking.

 

[Altair]

Your recent positions are:

-Buy new 4th gen fighters, Gripens, to compete with enemy 5th gen in peer to peer war
-Nothing wrong with importing Islamic call to prayer broadcast throughout a Canadian city and if you disagree you're an islamophobe
-Disconnect from worlds most free and largest market right next door, and get into bed with less compatible countries (China) who are actively trying to hurt us.
-Hurray US lost the war to Iran (they didn't but that's your position)

I'm quite comfortable in my complete opposition to your way of thinking.

So you think the UK is in the position it's in, and the churn of PMs, 6 in 7 years...because of the socialists?

Who have only been in power for 2 of the past 16 years?

You think the UK has been lagging economically since brexit, because of the socialists, who again, have been in power for 2 of the past 16 years?

Okay mate.

 

[Genetk44]

The UK is looking more and more like the Italy of the 60s, 70s and 80s.

 

[GK .Dundas]

The UK is looking more and more like the Italy of the 60s, 70s and 80s.

Or Isreal not that long ago either.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The UK is looking more and more like the Italy of the 60s, 70s and 80s.

The UK has stagnated before. What's lacking is a Thatcher.

Ever closer union is stuttering in a lot of countries.

 

[Altair]

The UK has stagnated before. What's lacking is a Thatcher.

Ever closer union is stuttering in a lot of countries.

Countries rarely decide to shoot itself in the foot, then blame every subsequent leader for not being able to keep up with its peers.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I wonder why that is?

Right, because without the EU they are functionally broke. Too broke to afford to maintain services, too broke to raise taxes, but the public want their services and dont want higher taxes.

So just like us? But let's spend 90 billion on a train when we can't afford to service the things we have already.

 

[Altair]

So just like us? But let's spend 90 billion on a train when we can't afford to service the things we have already.

We are not as broke as the UK, so no.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

So Altair's position is the UK screwed themselves by parting ways with the countries most accessible to them? Hmmm,..........irony anyone?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

We are not as broke as the UK, so no.

Well yes,......Mr. Carney's already done his dirty work there.

 

[Altair]

Well yes,......Mr. Carney's already done his dirty work there.

Why are you allowed to get away with trolling?

Anyways, Carney said Brexit was stupid and would negatively harm the UK. UK did it anyways. Now they are up shits creek without a paddle, and people blame Carney for it, despite him saying it was moronic.

And history has proved him right. They should have elected Carney as PM, he might have saved the UK from itself. Too bad for them, we got him.

 

[Altair]

So Altair's position is the UK screwed themselves by parting ways with the countries most accessible to them? Hmmm,..........irony anyone?

You go find where I said walk away from USMCA/CUSMA. Please, I would love to see where I said that.

I've said diversify away from the USA and reduce our dependancy on them, and I've said sign a new deal whenever a mentally competent democrat is in office.

So if you're done lying about what I say, maybe lets swing this back to the UK being ungovernable.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Why are you allowed to get away with trolling?

Usually an emoji following a sentence means it's in jest,.........someone needs to "lighten up Francis".

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I've said diversify away from the USA and reduce our dependancy on them, and I've said sign a new deal whenever a mentally competent democrat is in office.

..and if one doesn't come quick enough?