U.S. 2012 Election

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm sure Mrs. Romney has all sorts of opinions, as do most people, but the idea that she has an opinion that reflects the lives and challenges of the rest of Americans who don't live her incredibly privileged life is a little far-fetched.

I guess the same could be said about Hillary Clinton and all the rest of those highly placed mothers, in the Obama administration. After all, Hillary's marriage, child upbringing and family life are just the ticket for all of those women out there looking for a role model to show them how you can mix a career and family life :

 

[Redeye]

I guess the same could be said about Hillary Clinton and all the rest of those highly placed mothers, in the Obama administration. After all, Hillary's marriage, child upbringing and family life are just the ticket for all of those women out there looking for a role model to show them how you can mix a career and family life :

Hence the rather pointless nature of the comment, which was not really of any benefit to discourse.

 

[cupper]

Because she is so different than any middle class woman living comfortably and raising her kids then? Please, explain to me how having $5mil in savings makes a stay at home mom different than one that has say $10k in savings? Does Mrs Romney have a small army of nannies following her and her children around, or did she do it all herself? In reality, is a man (or woman) who makes $75k a year and works 9-5 daily any different than a CEO who works 9-5 daily and makes $250k? Aside from the toys they can buy, they are not really different.

I'm sorry, but if you don't see how there is a difference between life as a CEO and life as an average worker, then you really shouldn't be commenting on this. And no, the difference is not in the toys they can buy. :

 

[Brad Sallows]

>But what she didn't have is the necessity of budgeting every penny to make sure that everything that had to be paid was.

But that isn't the experience of the majority either.  I doubt many housewives in the US worry about where the next meal or the rent/mortgage payment is, or shop with a calculator, or choose between doctor and groceries any more than they choose between TV subscriptions and groceries.

As some wag pointed out (and I paraphrase), if the Romneys are unqualified to comment on those issues, the Obamas are unqualified - by their lack of experience - to comment on job creation issues.

 

[vonGarvin]

I'm voting for "New Coke". 

 

[muskrat89]

I know you're an Obama apologist and a Left wing loonie, but please try to have an original thought for once in your life instead of parroting whatever Left wing blog you've read most recently.

Sythen - enough with the left-wing loonie stuff. Stick to the debate.

Army.ca Staff

 

[vonGarvin]

I know you're an Obama apologist and a Left wing loonie, but please try to have an original thought for once in your life instead of parroting whatever Left wing blog you've read most recently.

Sythen - enough with the left-wing loonie stuff. Stick to the debate.

Army.ca Staff

I would offer that Sythen's post was rather accurate.

 

[Edward Campbell]

The US "culture wars" have infected us, here on Army.ca, too. Some of us seem incapable of admitting that President Obama is not a rabid, bomb throwing communist or that Mitt Romney is not an evil capitalist exploiter.

Now, personally and based on my reading of their respective records, I think Romney is the more moderate, the more middle of the road of the two, but either will, most likely, be constrained by a Congress that will, finally, be seized with the issue of America's massive indebtedness.

Civilization as we know it will not end if Barack Obama is a two term president, no more than if he serves just one term.

It is, it must be, possible for reasonable men and women to disagree about politics, to disagree fundamentally and on principle; but reasonable men and women must be able to disagree civilly - otherwise they are, by definition, less than reasonable, by which I mean that they are childish rather than grown up.

</rant>

 

[muskrat89]

I would offer that Sythen's post was rather accurate.

Regardless, name calling isn't tolerated - it takes away from the main points of the argument. As a Site Moderator I felt this was creeping up on the edges of acceptability per the site guidelines, so I made a statement to that effect. You are welcome to now re-focus on the discussion at hand.

Army.ca Staff

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Some of us seem incapable of admitting that President Obama is not a rabid, bomb throwing communist or that Mitt Romney is not an evil capitalist exploiter.

No arguement on your assessment of either one Edward. I'll also easily admit it.

 

[MJP]

Every time I come to this thread, it reminds me of this.

 

[Sythen]

I'm sorry, but if you don't see how there is a difference between life as a CEO and life as an average worker, then you really shouldn't be commenting on this. And no, the difference is not in the toys they can buy.

Please then, enlighten me cupper. Explain to me how two people, both working 9-5 jobs to support their families are any different, aside from the money they earn? Or are you one of the people who believe people are born CEO's and it takes no hard work or dedication working the crappy jobs to get there? If so, you can join the Occupy movement and demand a management position in a company based on a Master's degree in basketweaving  :

But that isn't the experience of the majority either.  I doubt many housewives in the US worry about where the next meal or the rent/mortgage payment is, or shop with a calculator, or choose between doctor and groceries any more than they choose between TV subscriptions and groceries.

Brad Sallows pretty much hit it bang on here. Have nothing extra to add as it he summed up what I was trying to say in a much better way.

I'm voting for "New Coke". 

Pretty sure that makes you a Communist  :warstory:

The US "culture wars" have infected us, here on Army.ca, too. Some of us seem incapable of admitting that President Obama is not a rabid, bomb throwing communist or that Mitt Romney is not an evil capitalist exploiter.

Now, personally and based on my reading of their respective records, I think Romney is the more moderate, the more middle of the road of the two, but either will, most likely, be constrained by a Congress that will, finally, be seized with the issue of America's massive indebtedness.

Civilization as we know it will not end if Barack Obama is a two term president, no more than if he serves just one term.

It is, it must be, possible for reasonable men and women to disagree about politics, to disagree fundamentally and on principle; but reasonable men and women must be able to disagree civilly - otherwise they are, by definition, less than reasonable, by which I mean that they are childish rather than grown up.

</rant>

I would love to agree with you, Mr Cambell, and in part I do. You are definitely right, the world will not end if either is elected. In fact, I see more of the same coming from Romney, so he will not fix a lot of the things that need fixing. I want to see the American people send a message to their politicians though, that incompetent leadership will NOT be rewarded. No politician is perfect, and nitpicking every single detail of their professional lives is not constructive at all, however Obama has proven he lacks the leadership necessary to even begin working towards a solution. Romney did an adequate job serving as Governor of Mass, therefore if things are going to be more of the same, I'd take someone with some experience when the big decisions come then someone who has proven he can't lead.

You also mention being constrained by congress, but who was that MSNBC personality who said Obama should bypass the "bought congress" and essentially take power to push things through he wanted? If I were home, I'd post links to it from youtube, but instead of being brushed off as an extremeist, this guy was applauded and held up as a hero for saying these things. In the next term, if congress puts a stop to some of the Obama initiatives, who is to say he won't try?

 

[cupper]

Please then, enlighten me cupper. Explain to me how two people, both working 9-5 jobs to support their families are any different, aside from the money they earn? Or are you one of the people who believe people are born CEO's and it takes no hard work or dedication working the crappy jobs to get there? If so, you can join the Occupy movement and demand a management position in a company based on a Master's degree in basketweaving  :

I'll give you the benefit that you understand that not everyone has a 9 to 5 white collar office job. It is rare to have a CEO that has worked their way up from the bottom most job in the organization. Many start in lower / middle management depending on their academic background. But to say that there is no difference between the guy who pushes a wrench on the factory floor and the guy who sits in the boardroom. Or the guy who works as a laborer on a construction site vs the project manager working in the site trailer and the President of the construction firm.

The average worker has the stress of wondering if his paycheck will stretch until the next payday. What will happen if he gets injured on the job. If he can afford to put the kids through college. If he will be able to retire at 65 or need to keep working. Why his dipstick of a boss can't understand that there is a difference between their lives even though they both work 9-5  >

Yes the CEO has stresses about keeping the company solvent, providing a sufficient return on investment for the shareholders, wether the proletariate will rise up in revolt and impose marxist values upon the corporation. ;D

What this comes down to is can Mitt Romney, multi-millionare investment banker who inherited his fortune and status relate to the plight of the common man? He probable can, but does not come across well, when he makes statements like "Corporations are people too my friend" "Who much do you want to bet? $10,000?" "My wife has two Cadillacs"

op:

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

What this comes down to is can Mitt Romney, multi-millionare investment banker who inherited his fortune and status relate to the plight of the common man? He probable can, but does not come across well, when he makes statements like "Corporations are people too my friend" "Who much do you want to bet? $10,000?" "My wife has two Cadillacs"

Just to play devil's advocate, what really is the requirement for Mitt Romney to prove that he relates 100% to the common man? He was already governor of a state, and from anything I can read, ran it pretty well, including implementing his own form of medical care. 

If I'm a US voter, I want someone who has proven he has the economic acumen and ability to fix the economy, not someone who I think I could chat with about the NFL draft.  As a former CEO and the governor of a MAJOR, northern, liberal state, I would trust that Romney has the ability to fix the economy.

Obama, on the other hand, was a community organizer, a 1 term senator, and former constitutional lawyer.  None of his plans for the economy have worked, and the constant blaming of the economy on Bush is getting old.  At some point, the voters have to ask if Obama is either incompetent and unable to fix Bush's errors, or if he is just trying to cover up the problems.

 

[Sythen]

I'll give you the benefit that you understand that not everyone has a 9 to 5 white collar office job. It is rare to have a CEO that has worked their way up from the bottom most job in the organization. Many start in lower / middle management depending on their academic background. But to say that there is no difference between the guy who pushes a wrench on the factory floor and the guy who sits in the boardroom. Or the guy who works as a laborer on a construction site vs the project manager working in the site trailer and the President of the construction firm.

The average worker has the stress of wondering if his paycheck will stretch until the next payday. What will happen if he gets injured on the job. If he can afford to put the kids through college. If he will be able to retire at 65 or need to keep working. Why his dipstick of a boss can't understand that there is a difference between their lives even though they both work 9-5  >

Yes the CEO has stresses about keeping the company solvent, providing a sufficient return on investment for the shareholders, wether the proletariate will rise up in revolt and impose marxist values upon the corporation. ;D

What this comes down to is can Mitt Romney, multi-millionare investment banker who inherited his fortune and status relate to the plight of the common man? He probable can, but does not come across well, when he makes statements like "Corporations are people too my friend" "Who much do you want to bet? $10,000?" "My wife has two Cadillacs"

op:

wow really? : Are you trolling or are you serious? A guy "who pushes a wrench on the factory floor"? Mechanics make VERY good money, and most factory workers are heavily unionized. By this logic, on military exercise when my Platoon Commander is getting orders, I am obviously working harder than him because I help dig his trench while he just does paper work? Guess he has no place leading me because he doesn't understand me and my first world problems. And don't even get me started on the OC or the CO! Lazy pricks probably out playing golf and drinking cognac!  :sarcasm:

I'd like you to post some actual statistics for me, from a credible source, that show the average worker lives pay cheque to pay cheque. Some do, which sucks.. But I am gonna go out on a limb and agree with Mr Sallow's previous comment that most decide between groceries and TV subscriptions, not between doctors and rent type of thing.

What you say about Mitt Romney is true. It can also be said about Obama. Or Bush. Or 99.9% of politicians that make a bid for the White House. Its a very weak argument and hypocritical to have it applied only to the Republican candidate and not to the Democrat.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

What this comes down to is can Mitt Romney, multi-millionare investment banker who inherited his fortune and status relate to the plight of the common man? He probable can, but does not come across well, when he makes statements like "Corporations are people too my friend" "Who much do you want to bet? $10,000?" "My wife has two Cadillacs" do a better job than Obama

TFTFY.

There's no need for all the extraneous dis\ qualifiers. What matters, is who is better all around to run the country.

Look at whether he'll be able to work with the Senate and Congress. Look at whether he'll be able to make things better, all around, for the US.

Who cares whether he's Daddy Warbucks or Joe Palooka.

If he can do the job, and make things work, he's already miles ahead of Obama.

 

[cupper]

wow really? : Are you trolling or are you serious?

Perhaps you should review your definition of what constitutes trolling.

A guy "who pushes a wrench on the factory floor"? Mechanics make VERY good money, and most factory workers are heavily unionized.

Again. your stereotypical view that all factory workers have UAW like contracts, or even UAW type representation show how little you understand.

By this logic, on military exercise when my Platoon Commander is getting orders, I am obviously working harder than him because I help dig his trench while he just does paper work? Guess he has no place leading me because he doesn't understand me and my first world problems. And don't even get me started on the OC or the CO! Lazy pricks probably out playing golf and drinking cognac!  :sarcasm:

Spare me the BS example. Not sure what logic you used to make the comparison.

What you say about Mitt Romney is true. ...  Its a very weak argument and hypocritical to have it applied only to the Republican candidate and not to the Democrat.

The discussion was about Mitt Romney, not Barak Obama. So can the hypocritical comment, particularly when you yourself have shown tendencies to the same.

I'd like you to post some actual statistics for me, from a credible source, that show the average worker lives pay cheque to pay cheque.

I'm not going to waste my time with your request. I've dealt with the same from you on other threads, and when I do provide such information, it's dismissed as crap by some left wing hack conspiracy source.

I've been very reasonable in my comments, and I expect the same in return.

 

[cupper]

TFTFY.

There's no need for all the extraneous dis\ qualifiers. What matters, is who is better all around to run the country.

Look at whether he'll be able to work with the Senate and Congress. Look at whether he'll be able to make things better, all around, for the US.

Who cares whether he's Daddy Warbucks or Joe Palooka.

If he can do the job, and make things work, he's already miles ahead of Obama.

I agree with you right up to the last point.

I'm not convinced that Romney's private equity market experience will translate to running the US economy. And I definitely have considerable concerns on his foreign policy ability.

 

[Sythen]

I'm not going to waste my time with your request. I've dealt with the same from you on other threads, and when I do provide such information, it's dismissed as crap by some left wing hack conspiracy source.

I've been very reasonable in my comments, and I expect the same in return.

: Can now see the type of person you are. Not worth debating with. Please post for me a link to any of your posts where I dismissed evidence presented as a "left wing hack conspiracy source".

 

[cupper]

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/105348/post-1134555.html#msg1134555