UK Eyes Canadian's Reduction Plan

[dapaterson]

Oh Really???!!!  WTF about the $30B Martin took from our pension fund to balance the books eh?  If that ain't getting raped, I don't know what is.

How, precisely, did this alter the benefits you were entitled to receive?

How did this change the promises made on your enrolment?


Um, that's right, no change.  Your benefits as provided for under the CFSA were protected.  Not changed at all.

The government, which pays 2/3 of the cost of your pension plan, and is on the hook in the event of a shortfall, took the surplus in the fund.  Courts have supported them in that.

So how, again, does this affect you?  Not at all.

 

[GAP]

I assume this does not include reductions due to a payout of a private RRSP?

 

[Tank Troll]

Your bosses need an education then........

I was a brand-new Cpl in Petawawa, living in the PMQs, when CFHA was created. I am no big fan of their management style either. So i did the only sensible thing  after i arrived in Edmonton........i scraped every cent i could and moved out of them.

My Bosses from that time are long gone from the army.

If you don't like PMQs or feel they are too expensive, no one is forcing you to live there.  We have a variety of very generous benefits to assist with home ownership and PLD has been reasonably successful in allowing people to live on the economy.  Personally, I feel we should get out of the PMQ business altogether.  Notwithstanding the "high" rents collected, they are still a money-loser for the Department.  A telling point a few years ago on one base I was at was that the complaints from the PMQ patch were not so much about size of PMQs or number of bedrooms, but about the lack of parking spaces  -- for the extra cars, ATVs, boats, RVs, etc.  It seems some folks had the priorities a little mixed up.

PLD came after I was was posted to Gagetown and on my 4th house I'm since retired and on my 5th house.

I don't know how they are a money loser seeing as every one I lived in was built in the late 40s early 50s and since have been paid off long ago. The up keep for them comes out of the rent collected from them, and some are as high as 1100.00 a month for a two bed room. That should of set the ones that are at a normal rate. Plus the crazy price they got for the ones in Calgary when we left and Edmonton when the closed half of Griesbach

 

[jollyjacktar]

How, precisely, did this alter the benefits you were entitled to receive?

How did this change the promises made on your enrolment?


Um, that's right, no change.  Your benefits as provided for under the CFSA were protected.  Not changed at all.

The government, which pays 2/3 of the cost of your pension plan, and is on the hook in the event of a shortfall, took the surplus in the fund.  Courts have supported them in that.

So how, again, does this affect you?  Not at all.

Right.  DP, Did I say anything about my pension benefits, any promises who funds what etc etc?  No.  I said they took $30B from our pension fund to help balance the books.  Period.  And sorry Pusser, I am not banging the drum about clawbacks either.  I was quickly attempting to find something to back up where I thought $30B had been taken out of out pension fund.  I am perfectly aware of the history of the pension and why or why not we get clawed back or not dependant upon which camp you back.  So either I am mistaken and the money did not exist and was taken or not.  If so, I will shut my trap.

DP, I felt that it was a raping.  Regardless of who paid what amount to this fund, the money was taken out.  Now if don't seem to feel that there has been anything wrong done in this, and that is your right.  I feel we were screwed.  And seeing as this is still before the courts I guess I am not alone feeling this way.  Court cases do not magically appear as in a Harry Potter film where magic just happens, someone took them to court for the money to be returned.

Maybe the fund will last through the ages.  I am sure that Nortel pensioners felt that their fund was bullet proof at one time too.  But if as you point out, the Gov't is going to cover any shortfall, it makes me think that perhaps it is not so safe after all.  Like it or not, a large amount of money was taken out of the pool call it an Uncle Jean and Paul gobbley gook "surplus" or what ever tag you want to attach to it.  And by taking out money of the pool, it makes that pool just a little bit shallower. 

And that, will be my last rant on this.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I think the Brits are on crack.  Most people are attracted to the persistent myth about how Martin slew the deficit, without understanding that the dominant factors were a 10-year-old habit of operating surpluses, falling interest rates, and rapidly growing revenues.

Most European nations in trouble are probably not even running an operating surplus (once the cost of debt service is ignored), the cost of servicing debt can't really go any lower, and there are no prospects for surges in public revenues.  None of the three most important factors exists.

 

[Pusser]

My Bosses from that time are long gone from the army.

I don't know how they are a money loser seeing as every one I lived in was built in the late 40s early 50s and since have been paid off long ago. The up keep for them comes out of the rent collected from them, and some are as high as 1100.00 a month for a two bed room. That should of set the ones that are at a normal rate. Plus the crazy price they got for the ones in Calgary when we left and Edmonton when the closed half of Griesbach

Overall, maintenance costs exceed revenues.  The PMQs in the expensive areas do make money, but the rest of them tend to lose.  Remember also that empty PMQs cost money to maintain as well, but generate no revenue.

 

[Pusser]

Right.  DP, Did I say anything about my pension benefits, any promises who funds what etc etc?  No.  I said they took $30B from our pension fund to help balance the books.  Period.  And sorry Pusser, I am not banging the drum about clawbacks either.  I was quickly attempting to find something to back up where I thought $30B had been taken out of out pension fund.  I am perfectly aware of the history of the pension and why or why not we get clawed back or not dependant upon which camp you back.  So either I am mistaken and the money did not exist and was taken or not.  If so, I will shut my trap.

DP, I felt that it was a raping.  Regardless of who paid what amount to this fund, the money was taken out.  Now if don't seem to feel that there has been anything wrong done in this, and that is your right.  I feel we were screwed.  And seeing as this is still before the courts I guess I am not alone feeling this way.  Court cases do not magically appear as in a Harry Potter film where magic just happens, someone took them to court for the money to be returned.

Maybe the fund will last through the ages.  I am sure that Nortel pensioners felt that their fund was bullet proof at one time too.  But if as you point out, the Gov't is going to cover any shortfall, it makes me think that perhaps it is not so safe after all.  Like it or not, a large amount of money was taken out of the pool call it an Uncle Jean and Paul gobbley gook "surplus" or what ever tag you want to attach to it.  And by taking out money of the pool, it makes that pool just a little bit shallower. 

And that, will be my last rant on this.

There is no denying that the Government removed $30B from the fund.  It was well documented.  My argument is that it doesn't matter, so why worry about it?  Whether the $30B is there or not does not change our benefits one iota.  Furthermore, the "fund" is more of an accounting tool, used to help the Government mitigate the impact of CF pensions on its current operating funds, than it is an actual depository and generator of pension funds.  There doesn't have to be any actual money it.  The comparison to Nortel is invalid.  That was a private fund created by a company that ran into financial difficulty and now can't pay its pensioners because their current revenues can't support it.  This is unlikely to happen to the CFSA and if it does, it means the country has completely collapsed and we will all have bigger problems (better lay in a few canned goods and spare ammunition).  As for the lawsuit, anyone can sue anybody.  These guys are a bunch of misguided fools who are wasting their time and our tax dollars by forcing the Government to defend itself.

 

[Rifleman62]

Ahoy Pusser, are you: Canadian Government Pays Organization To Troll Political Chat Forums????

http://snardfarker.ning.com/profiles/blogs/canadian-government-pays?xg_source=activity

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Oh I agree we are getting lots of combat experience, but it is all in a COIN environment, and it depends on what tour you are on as to how much you get.

As opposed to?

 

[Tank Troll]

Ahoy Pusser, are you: Canadian Government Pays Organization To Troll Political Chat Forums????

http://snardfarker.ning.com/profiles/blogs/canadian-government-pays?xg_source=activity

Hmmmmmm

 

[Pusser]

Ahoy Pusser, are you: Canadian Government Pays Organization To Troll Political Chat Forums????

http://snardfarker.ning.com/profiles/blogs/canadian-government-pays?xg_source=activity

NO!!!  And neither am I the Government's champion.  However, I can't stand idly by while others present arguments based on misinformation and misunderstanding.  For arguments based on those things eventually become exposed and collapse, making the presenter look pretty foolish.  I happen to know a few things about the CFSA, so I thought I'd share.

 

[Rifleman62]

Thanks for the answer. My attempt at humor did not come through in print. You are on message though!

 

[Pusser]

Sorry, if I came off a bit too gruff in my last response.