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RoyalHighlander
Guest
A soldier was killed and a second was injured Sunday morning in a vehicle accident in southern Iraq, U.S. Central Command said.The accident brought the total number of coalition deaths to 23 -- 14 Britons and nine Americans. In addition to the death in a grenade attack in Kuwait, two have died in combat, and the rest were killed in accidents
These are all FUBAR deaths.. what a waste...
These are all FUBAR deaths.. what a waste...
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ninty9
Guest
Its inevitable with so many people in such a small area.
It is sad.
It is sad.
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nbk
Guest
Sometimes I wonder about those Americans...are they trained to be so trigger happy?
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Theres a reason why for a long time their M16s didn‘t have the option to fire on fully automatic, only a 3 round burst.
Alogn with the news clippings of the us shooting down an RAF plane their showing a few pictures of american soldiers captured and shot execution style. That won‘t anger the americans at all and shut up the protesters, great thinking.
Alogn with the news clippings of the us shooting down an RAF plane their showing a few pictures of american soldiers captured and shot execution style. That won‘t anger the americans at all and shut up the protesters, great thinking.
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RoyalHighlander
Guest
Where was this shown???? First Ive heard about that?? can you post a link???
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RoyalHighlander
Guest
- Reaction score
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It was on CNN. There were pictures and videos from the iraq news TV but cnn decided not to show them, rather just put up one still photo. There were bodies lying on the floor in american fatigues. They were saying that some of the soldiers from the news footage appeared to be shot in the forehead, execution style.
Re: CTV link, just being nitpicky about the "violation of the Geneva Convention" bit regarding US PWs being shown on video, I remember CNN and whatnot showing lots and lots of Iraqi soldiers with their hands up and being searched and whatnot...
I think if one wants to be technical about it, the media is violating, on behalf of the Coalition, the Geneva Convention with regards to treatment of PWs.
I think if one wants to be technical about it, the media is violating, on behalf of the Coalition, the Geneva Convention with regards to treatment of PWs.
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RoyalHighlander
Guest
I have a question to put to our learned members here. the U.S states thay are doing this to liberate the Iraqi people from Saddams regime.. Why didnt they go into Afganistan to liberate them from the Russians???? maybe they didnt think they would or could win? They seem to allways pick a fight with some one they are sure they can beat it seems. Correct me if im wrong
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Pugil
Guest
CNN, and Foxnews are bad sources of info, if you want to get good and unbias info go to BBC, CBC newsworld. I find CNN and Foxnews are sensational news, they tend to be pro-war and showing dead US soldiers wont help their cause.
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Pugil
Guest
Dear Royal Highlander, we should remember that US supported actively Saddam Hussein for over 10 years, during that time he invaded Iran and gas the kurds. The US didnt say a word and kept sponsoring them. It is pure hypocrisy to say that they are going to "Liberate" Iraq when in the past the US was known to support cruel dictators. During the cold war, US supported alot of the Islamic extremists because they were against the atheist commies.
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ninty9
Guest
I saw part of the video of the KIA marines on the french network in Alberta. Pretty gruesome sight. Didn‘t really see how they were killed, but CNN sad some werr shot in the forehead. If this is the case that sounds more execution like than combat. I‘m sure it‘ll be a while before we find anything out, if ever.
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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You‘re joking, right? You really have no idea why the US didn‘t pick a direct confrontation with the USSR in the 1980s? None at all?
If I was running a country, I‘d probably choose wars I could win over wars I couldn‘t win. Is this such an improbable line of thought - or are you suggesting the US should start picking wars it is sure it will lose?
Your remarks are a bit confusing.
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
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SpinDoc, I should have thought this was obvious but apparently not: There is nothing illegal about photographing POWs. The difference here is that the US prisoners were INTERVIEWED and humiliated. That is against the Geneva Convention; prisoners must be made safe and kept from being humiliated; that can include being dragged through the streets or paraded for show, but can also mean being interviewed in the manner in which these unfortunate US troops were.
Have you seen a single instance of an Iraqi PW being interviewed against his will on TV?
Have you seen a single instance of an Iraqi PW being interviewed against his will on TV?
Jungle
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 15
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BTW: BBC is reliable; CBC Newsworld is leftist, anti-war.
The reason the USA never went into Afghanistan during the Russian occupation was because of the cold war. Everything was very delicate back then because of the balance of power. And yes, they will liberate Iraq, as that is what the Iraqis want.
Everybody agrees the USA made mistakes in the past; but who didn‘t ??? Alliances of the moment are arranged and cancelled coutinuously... read about it in history books.
Finally, everybody I know will go into any fight only if they believe they have a good chance to win... wouldn‘t you ?
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Bringer
Guest
If you‘re going to try to take cheap potshots at America you should pick a subject you‘re educated on.
The original M16 was fully automatic and was moved to three round burst with the M16A2.
The M4 which is currently replacing the M16A2 in most US Army units is only capable of single/3 round burst fire. The M4A1 used by US Rangers and Special Forces is single/automatic.
Please don‘t let me interrupt your tirade against America with facts.
Michael:
Regarding my comments earlier about CNN... You are right, I agree, it definitely is stretching it to include the media as violators of the Conventions...
But a devil‘s advocate would note that Article 13 (the one everyone is quoting) only stipulates that the PW is protected from "acts of violence or intimidation, and insults or public curiosity"... and since someone (a journalist? Sec Rumsfeld?) opened the can of worms about interviewing on videotape = public curiosity,it could be argued that showing prisoners on international television being captured and searched on the ground with their arms twisted behind their back could be construed as not protecting them from public curiosity -- esp. since the INTENT of the footage is to show everyone who owns a TV set.
In many parts of the world, being detained is humiliation... in Asia for example, criminal prisoners have hoods (or paper bags with holes) over their faces to shield themselves from the cameras because of the shame...
So I think CNN & Co. should lay off showing footage of Iraqi PWs (unless they blur out the faces or something) -- absurd as this may sound.
Regarding my comments earlier about CNN... You are right, I agree, it definitely is stretching it to include the media as violators of the Conventions...
But a devil‘s advocate would note that Article 13 (the one everyone is quoting) only stipulates that the PW is protected from "acts of violence or intimidation, and insults or public curiosity"... and since someone (a journalist? Sec Rumsfeld?) opened the can of worms about interviewing on videotape = public curiosity,it could be argued that showing prisoners on international television being captured and searched on the ground with their arms twisted behind their back could be construed as not protecting them from public curiosity -- esp. since the INTENT of the footage is to show everyone who owns a TV set.
In many parts of the world, being detained is humiliation... in Asia for example, criminal prisoners have hoods (or paper bags with holes) over their faces to shield themselves from the cameras because of the shame...
So I think CNN & Co. should lay off showing footage of Iraqi PWs (unless they blur out the faces or something) -- absurd as this may sound.
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Bringer, Bringer , Bringer. If you were trying to "educate" me then you didn‘t do a very good job. You never explained why the M16 was switched to a 3 round burst from automatic fire which was the topic of my post. I know a little about firearms too believe it or not.
I‘ll explain it for you just to be clear. The M16 was automaic. I was speaking in generic terms(Read m16 family). In vietnam studies found that soldiers would waste too much ammunition firing on full auto not to mention in a lot of cases soldiers would not make aimed shots at enemy soldiers, rather they would just squeeze the trigger and fire off 20 rounds in the direction of the enemy. Later versions of the M16 were made with a 3 round burst in order to A) stop soldiers from expending so much ammunition and B) promote the soldiers to take aimed shots at the enemy. In the future i‘ll make sure to more specific as to not draw ridicule. (Actually thats a lie)
My reply was in answer to NBK saying this.
"Sometimes I wonder about those Americans...are they trained to be so trigger happy?" And to his question to an extent the answer would be yes. Being trigger happy is a difficult attitude they are trying to over come.
Lastly when i was training in the states last year the soldiers whom i spoke with who used the m4 said their weapons fired single shot and full auto. (Just like the later versions of the M16a2 were made to be) These were regular infantry soldiers not special operations.
Next time you feel like educating people with your facts you should do a little homework and remember that smart people speak because they have something to say and stupid people speak because they think they need to say something.
I‘ll explain it for you just to be clear. The M16 was automaic. I was speaking in generic terms(Read m16 family). In vietnam studies found that soldiers would waste too much ammunition firing on full auto not to mention in a lot of cases soldiers would not make aimed shots at enemy soldiers, rather they would just squeeze the trigger and fire off 20 rounds in the direction of the enemy. Later versions of the M16 were made with a 3 round burst in order to A) stop soldiers from expending so much ammunition and B) promote the soldiers to take aimed shots at the enemy. In the future i‘ll make sure to more specific as to not draw ridicule. (Actually thats a lie)
My reply was in answer to NBK saying this.
"Sometimes I wonder about those Americans...are they trained to be so trigger happy?" And to his question to an extent the answer would be yes. Being trigger happy is a difficult attitude they are trying to over come.
Lastly when i was training in the states last year the soldiers whom i spoke with who used the m4 said their weapons fired single shot and full auto. (Just like the later versions of the M16a2 were made to be) These were regular infantry soldiers not special operations.
Next time you feel like educating people with your facts you should do a little homework and remember that smart people speak because they have something to say and stupid people speak because they think they need to say something.
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