UN is rotten to the core

[Trinity]

  when people are wrong they should be criticized.

Don't worry.  I'm sure you will be.

But I leave that to the more experienced members as I don't
have time to cut this up and dissect the mis truths, abuse of statistics
and out to date information.

 

[FredDaHead]

Don't worry.  I'm sure you will be.

But I leave that to the more experienced members as I don't
have time to cut this up and dissect the mis truths, abuse of statistics
and out to date information.

What, you mean you have a life?

...Now this is disappointing, when the padre has more to do on Saturday night than I do...

As for evolutionrules, he's clearly proven that, as a good lefty (talks like one, stinks like one, must be one), he's immune to logical arguments and the truth, so I'm not going to waste time with his fallacious arguments.

 

[evolutionrules]

ok i give up.  everything is perfect.  bush, cheney and rumsfeld were right about everything.  the war has been executed flawlessly.  if that's what you want to hear then you got it.  good luck.

 

[armyvern]

Evolutionrules:
A quote for you from the owner of this site, I highly suggest that you get a grip on yourself and start reading before posting.

Vernpol

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-35410.html#msg35410

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[FredDaHead]

ok i give up.  everything is perfect.  bush, cheney and rumsfeld were right about everything.  the war has been executed flawlessly.  if that's what you want to hear then you got it.  good luck.

It's not so much what we want to hear; it's what we don't want to hear.

And what we don't want to hear is the same old tired bullshit that's been spewed since about April 2003: Bushitler is evil, Iraq is a quagmire, all hail the Democrats, 9/11 was Bushitler's fault, Clinton is God, the Democrats will make everything better, and most of the other stuff you said.

 

[Yrys]

if that's what you want to hear then you got it

They have differents opinions then yours. What they want to read is :
facts and references, not assumptions. As yours opinions are very
differents then theirs, I think LOTS of facts and references would be helpful ...

Throwing the towel like a child in a tantrum won't be.

 

[Trinity]

ok...

instead of being whiny (and me being snotty)

Provide these "facts" you claim.
See... telling US to look up YOUR facts...  doesn't go over well.
If you can't substantiate what you are talking about as "fact" then
it's opinion.

That is why you were/are being jumped on.  Because until you provide
from credible and recent sources your facts...  it's not credible.

So you provided one source for once statistic.  Go back and find more relevant
sources for your claims... and then we can discuss it.


For example, you say 20 generals think the war has gone wrong.  Sure.. ok.
How many retired generals are there in the USA.  Hrm.  I don't have a source
for that but I would think that number would be at least in the thousands.  So
if only 20 spoke out... it's not really a big number as it would originally seem.

So, you provide the information you deem as fact from credible sources and
someone here will be glad to tell you the other side of the story.  Mind you,
if after reading Down Unders post... about IRAQ and well.. he's actually there
and you dismiss it... I don't know what else to say.

 

[Shamrock]

Allow me to demonstrate your sophistry.

1 September 1939.  Germany invades Poland.
7 December 1941.  Pearl Harbour.
30 April 1945.  Hitler ingests a small lump of lead.
7 May 1945.  Germany surrenders.
17 Aug 1945.  Japan surrenders.

20 March 2003.  America invades Iraq.
17 December 2006.  Today's date.

Since you've brought up World War Two, perhaps you should consider other things, including post-war occupation of defeated countries.

Edit:
As this seems to be an American-centric argument, I added the attacks and declarations of war on and by the USA. Still don't add up.

 

[1feral1]

ok i give up.  everything is perfect.  bush, cheney and rumsfeld were right about everything.  the war has been executed flawlessly.  if that's what you want to hear then you got it.  good luck.

Hummm.

Seems every one of your 7 posts you have created seem to spew a bit of an attitude from the get go.

Just remember its your credibility on here, not ours. If you want to make a fool out of yourself, keep going. Left, right, or in the middle, we all have opinions, but the way you present yourself tells me/us that your balls have not dropped, and you have an agenda.

Many have lost people close to us in this war, and thats the nature of the beast, people die, some most horribly and slow, others more quickly, again the nature of the beast. sad but true.

I can say in our business, violence is never personal, its just business. I get no sense of power pointing my rifle at a 12 yr old. No such thing as a war monger in the real world, just in arm chair roles in front of computer games back in a safe place. Many brave men and valour goes on here all the time, and many heros too, but those are the ones who go home in the aluminium coffins.

But I will end in saying about the WMD theory. What if it was much more serious than we even thought, and we did nothing, and something bad happened in a big western city, then what would you be saying?

Or if Saddam supported something so evil and wicked, again funding a major event against the west, and it happened, then what would you say?

Do you think I want to be here? Ya, I volunteered for this special role we have here, as we all did, then we were hand picked from that group. No real soldier wants war, but at times its necessary so even people like you can live free, and we can also give that freedon to others.

So, don't go using this site to preach your anti-Bush, anit-governemnt, anti-war sewerage, if you want to do that there is plenty of other sites to choose from.

Yet disgusted again,

Wes

 

[evolutionrules]

i'm not anti war, anti military or even anti bush.  i'm anti stupidity.  want to find WMD?  invade north korea.  i support that.  strategic strikes of iran.  i support that.  completely destroying the tribal regions in pakistan (and therefore a lot of taliban).  i support that.  invading iraq.  i tentatively supported that (the weapons inspectors, after all, were saying no WMD).  but i don't believe in giving politicians blind support when thay clearly made numerous mistakes.  i don't care if they are right or left.  the soldiers deserve better.  i can't believe no one has the balls to even admit that things haven't gone well.  i support every soldier in iraq.  and their families back home.  but to not even question whether or not things are going as well as they could is crazy.  and undemocratic.  whether you're a republican or a democrat.

 

[armyvern]

evolutionrules,

Please let me put this in plain english as you obviously haven't read the refs I provided you with earlier and choose instead to continue spouting your rhetoric:

Use *ucking capitalization!! Clear enough??

 

[AKA Sam]

Just to add my observations of the ongoing discussion (as the guy who posted the column and wrote the letter in response), it's amazing how fast the conversation declines into nonsense, once the Bush-bashing starts.  The problems with the UN predate George Dubya by at least a generation.

Kofi Annan's obtuse remarks notwithstanding, the United States and "the coalition of the willing" have done the people of Iraq and the rest of the world a favour by removing Saddam Hussein from the stage and his sons from the planet.  Clearly, things in Iraq are not optimal, but imagine what will happen if Hollywood, the lib-left media and the Democrats in the USA get their way and the US military is forced/starved out of Iraq. 

Note to evolutionrules:  Don't put too much stock in opinion polls of soldiers in the field.  Soldiers always *****.  It's their right, under the circumstances. 

With respect to concentrating on Afghanistan and winning the battle there, our boys are doing quite well against the Taliban in the south, thank you.  Imagine how many more terrorists the Taliban could import to help their cause against our efforts to bring stability to the region, if they weren't otherwise occupied, fighting the "great Satan" in Iraq.

Finally, on Friday I was privileged to meet a young man who was home on leave from Afghanistan, where he has been at the "pointy end" of things since August.  He reports that they're getting the job done over there.  Not without a cost in lives lost and others forever altered by wounds suffered.  They need our support, not a bunch of hand-wringing and introspective self-doubt.  I'll be seeing my own son off to Afghanistan in February.  I can tell you that he doesn't give a rat's *ss about the politics.  He only cares about the other guys in his section and watching his arcs.  He'll gladly leave the political discussions to old farts like me.

I've enjoyed many of the more intelligent posts on both sides of the issue, (you know who you are).  As for evolutionrules; perhaps you might want to visit another site.  This one is for grown-ups.

AKA Sam's husband

 

[evolutionrules]

I'll stop posting.  Didn't mean to upset anyone.  Before I go I would like to say how proud my family and I are of all you Canadian soldiers.  You guys are the best soldiers in the world and the best group of people I have ever met in my entire life.  I support you guys 100% and you should know that there is at least on car driving around Los Angeles with the Canadian version of "support the troops" magnets and window stickers.  I truely hope that no one was insulted by my comments as that was the last thing i intended.  I apologize if this was the case but I do not apologize for my beliefs.  I do believe I am correct about Iraq and I thank you for fighting for my right to express myself.  I hope everyone comes home safe and that all of you have a wonderful Christmas.

 

[Trinity]

I'm not upset or insulted.

I actually want to hear your VALID points.
Please stay.. but just provide some links of reliable
information and I'd be happy to chat.

But..  thanks for your support otherwise.  There are other
threads here I'm sure you can contribute to and would be
happy with... so don't just leave.  Stay, read, learn and participate.

 

[Dogboy]

Now that's the way to end a discushon, both sides saying OK, you have your view and I have mine and agreeing to disagree, but still on friendly terms.

 

[Trinity]

Now that's the way to end a discushon, both sides saying OK, you have your view and I have mine and agreeing to disagree, but still on friendly terms.

Don't worry... the peace won't stay for long.

 

[FredDaHead]

Don't worry... the peace won't stay for long.

So it's like peace in the Middle East?

 

[Yrys]

Peace in ME must have happen one time I blink!

 

[FredDaHead]

Peace in ME must have happen one time I blink!

Actually I think the last time there was peace in the Middle East was around the time that Noah guy built his boat.

 

[1feral1]

Actually I think the last time there was peace in the Middle East was around the time that Noah guy built his boat.

.... and there won't be any peace until the next flood comes, or the next 4 or 5 sunrises before 0900!

Cheers,

Wes