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UNAUTHORIZED DISPOSAL OF COMBAT UNIFORMS AND EQUIPMENT

The Air Farce thing is more than rumour.  The show was provided with uniforms by Public Affairs.  It created a bit of a stink at the time as not all soldiers had received the uniform.  Here's the Maple Leaf article:

TORONTO - Two CF members recently responded to a call out to assist the cast of the Royal Canadian Air Farce television show, with their long running and well-known "Chicken Cannon" sketch, which aired on CBC March 1.

Outfitted in the new CADPAT (Canadian Disruptive Pattern) uniforms, veteran cast members were joined by Sergeants Leigh Mathieson and Ernie Parolin from Director Land Requirements in Ottawa.

The chicken cannon, loaded with quiche, bologna, salmon, ice cream, whipped cream and a maraschino cherry, blasted a picture of the Olympic figure skating judges.


The uniforms have large "chicken cannon" patches to distinguish them from the real thing...

Never said I agreed with it, but there it is...

Cheers,

TR
 
One of the people im on course with had one of his cadpat shirts misplaced/stolen and was told that any cadpat items that you have to file a Lost Kit Report for were under investigation. So he cant even get a new shirt before SG05, oh well. I was issued my TacVest and CadPat Uniforms during the last training year (pre-winter). Is there still anyone out there without them?
 
I thought there was a civvy version of cadpat for a reason. Are military issued cadpat uniforms allowed to be sold to civvies?
 
you can get the real Mccoy at the surplus stores.... it's washed out and worn out but it's there.

You can get the chinese knock offs from sporting goods stores & ebay

Believe that Frontenac also sells it's seconds to the surplus stores - direct.
 
Oh. I was just wondering if civvies were allowed to have the real thing... I saw a civvy walking around in one yesterday.
 
Armyvern has anwsered this one a few times, the stuff at the surplus store is NOT real Cadpat material, just the design.

If you can buy REAL Cadpat issued stuff than someone should be doing time......
 
For the tenth time (at least):

Canadian Forces Cadpat material & Uniforms made from it are considered controlled goods due to some unique properties built into the material design. The ONLY persons authorized to be in posession of or to handle controlled goods are Military personnel, civilian employees and contractor's etc who have undergone background checks and security clearances. There is a reason for this.

I refer you here:

The "Controlled Technology Access Transfer Regulations" (CTAT) which fall under the auspices of the "Defense Production Act" ie: FEDERAL LAW.

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/daod/3003/1_e.asp

"Under the Defence Production Act it is an offence for a person who is not registered under that Act to knowingly examine, possess or transfer a controlled good. The registration requirements do not apply to a person who occupies a position in the federal public service or a federal Crown Corporation, or is employed by Her Majesty in right of a province, who acts in good faith in the course of their duties and employment.

"Policy Statement
DND and the CF are committed to demonstrating responsiveness to, and responsibility for, all laws and regulations in respect of controlled goods.

Requirements
DND and the CF must:
ensure that all controlled goods are identified and afforded the necessary level of protection to prevent their unauthorized examination, possession or transfer;
ensure that DND employees and CF members exercise due diligence and permit access to controlled goods only by persons so authorized under the Defence Production Act and the Controlled Goods Regulations; and
provide for reporting and investigation if the security of a controlled good is compromised in any way.
Authority
Authority Table The following table identifies the authorities responsible for implementing the policy.
The Vice Chief of the Defence Staff (VCDS)
has the authority to direct that the management of controlled goods be included in business plans.
ADM(Mat)
approve and administer policy for controlled goods."

Secondly,  A Criminal Code of Canada Offense:
It's called Impersonation:
Specifically, CCC Section 419 Impersonation:
"Everyone who, without lawful authority, the proof of which lies on him:
(a) wears a uniform of the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force or a uniform that is so similar to the uniform of any of those forces that it is likely to be mistaken therefore,"

So being as how the MND & CDS' Policy (and therefore the Federal Governments) on the wearing of cadpat does not give lawful authority to civilians to posess or wear cadpat, anyone doing so (or anyone selling it on E-Bay etc) is acting in direct contradiction to the "Defense Production Act" and therefore is committing a Federal Offense.  CF personnel, DND civilian's and member's of contracting companies who have been "caught" selling surplus or faded, whole, wearable garments made with the actual Canadian Forces patented material (this is applicable only the actual CF cadpat material with our special little properties - not any regular material printed with the cadpat design) have been subjected to federal black marketeering charges. They are also subject to charges under the CTAT Regulations...not good as your security clearance dissappears...just like that. Those purchasers of these "CF Genuine" garments are also subject to Federal charges relating to the possession of black market goods, and if they happen to be a CF member, a federal employee or a federal contractor, are also subject to charges relating to CTAT.
 
Many many sites sell cadpat uniforms which look like ours but are NOT the genuine article. Most will also point this out on their web-sites...They will point out that this material, although of a 'cadpat design' is NOT the material used to produce the CF operational dress. It does not come with the "operational capabilities" that ours does. If it does, whoever is selling it is comitting a Federal Offense, and so is whoever is buying it. See an example and their disclaimer here:

http://www.wheelersonline.com/detail.asp?product_id=1010
Anybody and their dog with access to material, a computer and assorted green relish dyes can make a genuine "Cadpat pattern" but it is not "Genuine Cadpat material" because it does not incorporate our distict properties.....

Once again, if you are aware of the "Genuine Article" being made available for purchase to any non-authorized persons...you, if you are a member of the CF or the Federal Civil Service are obligated to report this as described in the CTAT link given above. ("provide for reporting and investigation if the security of a controlled good is compromised in any way.")

All cadpat going through CF R&D sections for disposal (either worn, NS or Suplus) is to be "certified as demilitarized" (ie shredded into useless material that would, and does, make fine helmet scrim) prior to it's being sold off as "scrap material."

I would suggest to you that if you do indeed happen to come across some genuine stuff on E-Bay, you take a print screen and forward to your MP's for investigation. Besides which, none of the stuff on E-Bay is legally obtained therefore why are you paying this thief your money when the poor kid he stole it from is probably one of your soldiers with the pending Stores Loss Report and MP Investigation?  What the seller actually deserves is one hell of a throat punch. Plain and simple.

Geo, The Frontenac comment about them selling cadpat greatly concerns me, as they are indeed a Federal Contractor and therefore subject to CTAT and all other applicable Federal Laws. If this is a fact, all I can say is WOW...how blatant, and that gives me something to address at work tomorrow (are you sure it is the actual cadpat??).

Now, for those of you out there who continue to PM me with sites and links on which you find what is described as the "Genuine article" made with "authentic CF Cadpat Material", I thank you, and I continue to send these up for invest, as it should be, when we have real soldier's going without!!



 
Armyvern,

Before you go out whistleblowing on every ebay seller and manufacturers such as Frontenac, Dropzone Tactical and Wheeler's CP Gear, please be aware that DND does license possession, production and retailing of cadpat to the commercial market.  The provisions under which they grant the license are that:  The products being produced are not exact copies of CF issued clothing and equipment (hence why the Frontenac clothing's pattern is different than CF combats) and that the manufacturer be Canadian based, maintaining a Canadian production facility, employing Canadians.

This is from a very credible source in DND's Directorate of Intellectual Property office which handles all cadpat licenses.
 
Actually have been invlved in a NIS investigation into CADPAT and CADPAT AR -- the material itself is NOT controlled - despite the IR coating.  It is however almost impossible to obtain w/o CF permission (that is manufacturers)

Wearing CADPAT gear is fine for civies - as long as it is not worn with the intent to impersonate or otherwise imitate a CF member or officer.
 
Matt_Fisher said:
Armyvern,

Before you go out whistleblowing on every ebay seller and manufacturers such as Frontenac, Dropzone Tactical and Wheeler's CP Gear, please be aware that DND does license possession, production and retailing of cadpat to the commercial market.   The provisions under which they grant the license are that:   The products being produced are not exact copies of CF issued clothing and equipment (hence why the Frontenac clothing's pattern is different than CF combats) and that the manufacturer be Canadian based, maintaining a Canadian production facility, employing Canadians.

This is from a very credible source in DND's Directorate of Intellectual Property office which handles all cadpat licenses.

Agreed and I am aware of this...as per my post..it is the Unauthorized....

I did include this little bit in my post
"(this is applicable only the actual CF cadpat material with our special little properties - not any regular material printed with the cadpat design)"

Hope this clarifies...

Vern
 
KevinB said:
Actually have been invlved in a NIS investigation into CADPAT and CADPAT AR -- the material itself is NOT controlled - despite the IR coating.  It is however almost impossible to obtain w/o CF permission (that is manufacturers)
Me too. With CF permmission making one "authorized". Therefore the below is not applicable. When a usually non-authorized pers becomes "authorized" it is done in writing, and the authorized pers then becomes subject to the same CTAT Regs (as per their authorization) as the rest of us for controlling what he has been authorized to hold.

KevinB said:
Wearing CADPAT gear is fine for civies - as long as it is not worn with the intent to impersonate or otherwise imitate a CF member or officer.
Wearing a cadpat design which does not have the IR capabilites is allowable for civilians etc. Civies who become "authorized" to wear the "CF material" uniform, become subject to CTAT as well. As an example, certain civilian visitors into AORs...this authority to issue to them, again comes in written form from NDHQ....
 
armyvern, why should we believe a single thing you've written when we can see the Chicken Cannon crew on CBC wearing it every week on Royal Canadian Air Farce?  They got theirs before many units of the Regular Force, never mind the Reserves...
 
Michael Dorosh said:
armyvern, why should we believe a single thing you've written
Well I've quoted the Regulations...and provided the links to them as well...what more can one say? PS, I don't write the Regulations, perhaps you should address your disbelief of them to the CDS/NDHQ...

Michael Dorosh said:
the Chicken Cannon crew on CBC wearing it every week on Royal Canadian Air Farce?   They got theirs before many units of the Regular Force, never mind the Reserves...
I believe that this issue with the RC Air Farce was previously addressed on another thread.... these uniforms were obtained by them quite a few years ago now...from a couple of over-eager Military pers who were "only trying to help"...it, and the "helpers" were addressed by the CF. And, apparently as CBC employess (thus falling under Federal guidelines, apparently it was decided that as they underwent 'security checks' they could retain them for on their comedy series. Read the link to CTAT that I have provided below and specifically to whom these regs are NOT applicable to, but what could happen to those same federal employees should they sell they turn around and sell them on E-bay or whatever to a non-authorized pers. It's all relative.
 
Hummmmmmmmmmmmm!...

Anybody can buy Cadpad online... one of the is www.CPGear.com

1010lg.jpg


 
404SqnAVSTeach said:
Hummmmmmmmmmmmm!...
Anybody can buy Cadpad online... one of the is www.CPGear.com
1010lg.jpg

OK read the Title of this thread very very carefully...pay attention to detail. I thought that used to be rule #1 in the Military??

IE look at your pic...it is not a picture of military issue cadpat!! Look at the pockets on it!! Which I also clearly pointed out in my original post like this (using the exact same link as yourself by the way...):
Read the description.....for the item...that's why I posted it...

Many many sites sell cadpat uniforms which look like ours but are NOT the genuine article. Most will also point this out on their web-sites...They will point out that this material, although of a 'genuine cadpat pattern' is NOT the genuine cadpat material used to produce the CF operational dress. It does not come with the "operational capabilities" that ours does. If it does, whoever is selling it is comitting a Federal Offense, and so is whoever is buying it. See an example and their disclaimer here:
http://www.wheelersonline.com/detail.asp?product_id=1010

And therefore...

Because it is not the actual CF Military issued cadpat...the regulations are not applicable. This was also stated in my original post. Please read carefully before you start flaming me...




 
Bottom line is folks, you can buy a watch that LOOKS just like, and says that it is, a Rolex for 30 bucks, IT DOES NOT MEAN IT IS A ROLEX!!!!
Thats all[again] folks.
 
On one forum I'm on, this one Italian guys pretty much shows off an brags about how he is able to get brand new CF issues items, etc
Most of it he buys from someone in Canada, the rest he's able to buy from people in Germany.

CADPAT AR an TW boonies
http://img436.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pc2601608zn.jpg

AR CADPAT combats
http://img343.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p10101667cq.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p21900122tf.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p21900100yc.jpg

TW CADPAT combats
http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p10101752rt.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p20800036rg.jpg

CADPAT gloves
http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=guanti20pb.jpg

Tac Vest
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/6519/canadianarmytvfronte7fc.jpg


New Ballastic Glasses
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8250/p10101746in.jpg
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6994/p10101728nc.jpg

 
Hey! maybe it won't be too long before we see CADPAT in rap and hip-hop videos. You Can Find Me In Da Club CADPAT..

Ga Ga Ga GEEEEE-uuuniiiiitt.... word.
 
This is not an isolated incident, and in my personal experience there is little point in losing sleep over the "leakage" of genuine-issue operational Canadian uniform items.  The bottom line is that greed amongst a few non-accountable individuals within the CF supply chain far outweighs their obligation to protect the operational security of our soldiers serving both at home and abroad.

The sale of "fell off the truck" CADPAT items has been ongoing since CADPAT TW was first fielded back in late 2001.  If in doubt, just do a "CADPAT" search on eBay.  In and amongst the auction listings for licensed knock-off Frontenac, Drop Zone and Tiger Tactical items (none of which duplicate the genuine kit), you will find the real deal with CF tags.  From the new gloves that most of us don't yet have, to Tac Vests which some of us still haven't been issued, to uniforms, bivvy bags, and small-packs.  There can be zero doubt that there are a very small minority of civilian and/or military personnel within the contractor and/or CF supply chain who are skimming gear and selling it for significant personal profit.  Most have quickly become smart enough to involve an off-shore "middle-man" so as to complicate the investigative chain and avoid prosecution.

The NIS continue to investigate such cases, but to date they have achieved little other than to seize government property from the very few Canadian surplus dealers so pathetically stupid as to purchase and then directly retail government property that was quite obviously stolen.  I say this having been involved in one such case.  The Military Police haven't managed to scratch the surface, particulary as regards the rather unsophisticated operations where a leak in the supply chain sells through a foreign purchaser.  It is really quite pathetic.  Particularly when one considers that the current restrictions on the sale of genuine-issue CADPAT items are firmly grounded in the operational security of our deployed forces.   

Do a search on eBay.  And then get very, very angry and contact your local MP Det with auction links (or better yet, print-outs).  All the while bearing in mind that there is some grotesquely fat-arsed air-softer in Europe wearing the genuine CF CADPAT uniform, tac vest, small-pack, and gloves that YOU (or your subordinate) should have been issued by now....

Are you pissed off yet?!?!  You ought to be....
 
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