UNAUTHORIZED DISPOSAL OF COMBAT UNIFORMS AND EQUIPMENT

[dapaterson]

Process is (with apologies to slashdot):

(1) Find "supplier" for material.

(2) Buy box of scraps.

(3) Claim real stuff was in box of scraps.

(4) Sell enough real stuff to fill every box of scrap you bought hundreds of times over.

(5) Profit!

 

[043]

No, it's not normal. Cadpat uniforms cannot be sold as scrap textiles - period. They must be burned or shredded - this is the only means of legal disposal. Most places are shredding now, as burning could be harmful to the atmosphere. This all being said, this seems to be the excuse in most situations now (was in a scrap textiles triwall which I purchased through a government auction). We supply techs are not perfect by no means, but we have been doing this long enough now to know the difference between the SHREDDING pile and the SALE pile!!!

While it sounds infallible, it's not. I remember in Pet years ago, R&D sent a bunch of Combats to the dump for disposal. Well, the owner of the dump then starting selling combats for $2 a pair.....we would buy them, and then take them up to QM to exchange them. A sweet deal for sure.

 

[BinRat55]

While it sounds infallible, it's not. I remember in Pet years ago, R&D sent a bunch of Combats to the dump for disposal. Well, the owner of the dump then starting selling combats for $2 a pair.....we would buy them, and then take them up to QM to exchange them. A sweet deal for sure.

True enough - and even THAT was an incorrect procedure. Our old OD cbts were sold as scrap textiles. Once taken out of the system, a big "D" was put somewhere on the item. Clothing Stores pers were to look for this infamous "D" prior to any exchange taking place. To take a bunch of uniforms to the dump - well, not in its whole state anyway. Shouldna been done. We can take our cadpat to the dump - after its been shredded.

I can remember finding the "D" on lots of returns. You do what you can when you can - but your right - definitely NOT an infallible system.

 

[geo]

Currently in LFQA clothing stores will run N/S CADPAT thru a tru & blue "wood chipper".
The School in St Jean bought one for their use some time ago but they found it too much bang for their requirements - so the chipper ended up in Montreal stores where all CADPAT is sent for demilitarization.

 

[armyvern]

Get the SHREDDED bit of this message dammit.

If cadpat items are NOT being SHREDDED ... they can not be sold via CADC by Base Supply's. They must be SHREDDED first.

Obviously, there's some Supply Supervisors in R&D sections in some bases that need some SERIOUS corrective actions to occur to THEM so that they start COMPLYING with the requirement to SHRED FIRST.

Then, if CADC won't sell the SHREDDED stuff for them, they can toss the SHREDDED items into a dumpster.

What part of SHRED do some Sup techs obviously NOT understand.

We can BITCH all we want about some surplus store selling it whole --- but it's OK for him to do IF the SUP TECH screwed up and didn't do THEIR jobs and SHRED it prior to selling via CADC as "scrap materials."

Thieves ... whole 'nother ball game. I hope they all rot.

AIMS
HMRA - Browser
HMRA - Editor

None 

CFAO
QR&O 
CANFORGENS 
Routine Orders 
DAOD 

DMPP 008/08 - DISPOSAL OF SHREDDED CADPAT CLOTHING


"Unclas"
"18400-1"
"200644"
"AUG"
"08"
"Routine"

""
"CWO J. ARMSTRONG DSCO 2-5-3"
"MAJ M. MORIN A/DSCO 2"
"DMPP 008/08"
"NAA"
""
""
""
""
"NDHQ DGMSSC OTTAWA//DSCO//"
"AIG 1715"
""
""
""
"SUBJ: DISPOSAL OF SHREDDED CADPAT CLOTHING
REFS: A. A-LM-007-014/AG01 CFSM CHAP 10 ANNEX D APPENDIX 13
B. A-LM-007-014/AG01 CFSM CHAP 13 ART 3-13F-001

1. IT HAS COME TO THIS DIRECTORATES ATTENTION CROWN ASSETS DISTRIBUTION
CENTRES (CADC) IN SOME AREA'S OF THE COUNTRY WILL NOT ACCEPT SHREDDED CADPAT
CLOTHING.

2. DISPOSAL SECTIONS AT BASES/STATIONS MUST CONFIRM WITH THEIR REGIONAL
PWGSC/CADC REPS IF SHREDDED CADPATS CAN BE DECLARED. IF CADC WILL NOT ACCEPT
SHREDDED CADPATS THEY SHALL BE DISPOSED OF LOCALLY IN DUMPSTERS OR USED AT THE
UNIT AS RAGS. BURNING OF CADPAT CLOTHING IS ONLY AUTHORIZED UPON APPROVAL OF
ENVIROMENTAL CANADA AS PER REF A.

3. IF ADDITIONAL INFO IS REQUIRED CONTACT DSCO 2-5-3 AT 819-99X-XXXX OR DSAL 2-
3 AT 819-99X-XXXX.
SUJ : ALIENATION DE VETEMENTS DCAMC DECHIQUETES

REF : A. A-LM-007-014/AG01 CFSM CHAP 10 ANNEX D APPENDICE 13
B. A-LM-007-014/AG01 CFSM CHAP 13 ART 3-13F-001

1. CETTE DIRECTION A ETE INFORMEE QUE LES CENTRES DE DISTRIBUTION DES BIENS
DE LA COURONNE (CDBC) DANS CERTAINES REGIONS DU PAYS N'ACCEPTERONT PAS DE
VETEMENTS DCAMC DECHIQUETES.

2. LES SECTIONS RESPONSABLES DE L ALIENATION DANS LES BASES ET LES STATIONS
DOIVENT CONFIRMER AVEC LEUR REPRESENTANTS REGIONAUX DE TPSGC/CDBC SI LES DCAM
DECHIQUETES PEUVENT ETRE DECLARES. SI LE CDBC N ACCEPTE PAS DE DCAMC
DECHIQUETES, CEUX-CI DOIVENT ETRE ALIENES LOCALEMENT DANS DES BENNES A REBUS
OU ETRE UTILISES AU SEIN DE L UNITE EN TANT QUE CHIFFONS. BRULER LES VETEMENTS
DCAMC EST UNIQUEMENT AUTORISE LORSQUE CETTE PRATIQUE EST APPROUVEE PAR
ENVIRONNEMENT CANADA CONFORMEMENT A LA REF A.

3. POUR DE PLUS AMPLES RENSEIGNEMENTS, VEUILLEZ COMMUNIQUER AVEC DOCA 2-5-3
AU 819-99X-XXXX OU CSAT 2-3 AU 819-99X-XXXX."

 

[Blakey]

If in fact these are real (sure looks like it to me, looks like pockets sewn onto sleeves ala tour specs) it really pisses me off.

It never ceases to amaze me what people will do to scam kit from the military and horde it in their basements and/or sell the kit, I mean WTF are they thinking?, I have no time for thieves, all they are doing is screwing their buddies over.

I've been a storeman on a couple of occasions and Ive heard all the stories, after looking at their personaly SIGNED 638 card the most usual response is "I don't remember signing for that..." or "I didn't get that..." blah blah blah... :crybaby: COME ON PEOPLE, YOU SIGNED THE DAMN CARD! 


Sorry, back on topic.
I sure hope that this is just an oversight by some R&D section, something that will be corrected.

 

[R. Jorgensen]

If in fact these are real (sure looks like it to me, looks like pockets sewn onto sleeves ala tour specs) it really pisses me off.

It never ceases to amaze me what people will do to scam kit from the military and horde it in their basements and/or sell the kit, I mean WTF are they thinking?, I have no time for thieves, all they are doing is screwing their buddies over.

I've been a storeman on a couple of occasions and Ive heard all the stories, after looking at their personaly SIGNED 638 card the most usual response is "I don't remember signing for that..." or "I didn't get that..." blah blah blah... :crybaby: COME ON PEOPLE, YOU SIGNED THE DAMN CARD! 


Sorry, back on topic.
I sure hope that this is just an oversight by some R&D section, something that will be corrected.

My uncle (Rob Erickson [I can't remember what his rank or regiment is - most likely RCR because I know for a fact he's an Infanteer, Cpl or MCpl]) had once said "It's sad to see fellow troop mates and such go 1, 2, even 3 years without their proper Combat Uniforms... walking around in the ol' OD's when you could probably outfit a whole troop with another pair of combats from all the official kit being sold on the internet." Now that was a few years ago so more than likely the situation has changed, however these "theives" like you said should be delt with; I don't care if there isn't enough MP's to go around, get the RCMP and local police services to enforce and punish these people. It should be illegal for civilians to posses and sell ANY property of the Canadian Forces that has not been deemed 'surplus'.

(I haven't eaten yet today so there may be some error with my post, I'll be back soon to patch this up if that's the case).

 

[1feral1]

The man's name is (name now deleted) and he claims he received them through a Crown Auction and they came up along with scrap material:

"these sets came out with many many more pieces as
scrap textiles.
Through the government auction."

Is it normal or even legal for the Government to sell WHOLE uniforms at a Government auction? This seems a little bit odd.

Come on! Naming this guy on here - sheesh, we cannot assume he is guilty of any crime, all because of potential government incompetance WRT improper disposal. He is not a thief, and he should not be treated with such contempt. I think its very harsh to publicallly name in on here, and this (his name) should be immedialty edited by the Mods or the poster. Its just not the right thing to do, and I am right winged!

Regards,

OWDU

 

[R. Jorgensen]

Come on! Naming this guy on here - sheesh, we cannot assume he is guilty of any crime, all because of potential government incompetance WRT improper disposal. He is not a thief, and he should not be treated with such contempt. I think its very harsh to publicallly name in on here, and this (his name) should be immedialty edited by the Mods or the poster. Its just not the right thing to do, and I am right winged!

Regards,

OWDU

True, however Mr. X gave me his name so it's his own fault. I shall change ASAP.

 

[1feral1]

Don't go passing the blame, you posted it.

Its up to you whatever decision you make, and we are all responsible for our own actions.

EDIT: IMHO you did the right thing by deleting his name

 

[hugh19]

Mind you Mr X's name is still in the quotes.

 

[CountDC]

Don't go passing the blame, you posted it.

Its up to you whatever decision you make, and we are all responsible for our own actions.

EDIT: IMHO you did the right thing by deleting his name

so now you and Binrat have to remove it from your posts

 

[1feral1]

Mind you Mr X's name is still in the quotes.

Thanks CDC,

Since rectified, thanks for pointing that out. Amended once at work.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Recon 3690]

Thanks I've enjoyed the laugh. MPs have no authority over civilians unless said civilians are employed by DND or on DND property. RCMP assistance is required, a warrent signed by a Judge is required, civilians are not bound by QR&Os with the exceptions stated above, Crown assets disposal is not a military entity it is a civilian gov't agency DND regs do not apply to them, if IRR tech was controlled Camelbak products would be seized by Canada Customs, crown assets are my tax dollars,  all the stuff you are complaining about is available in every surplus store across the country legally disposed of by Crown Assets Disposal (I am very familiar with CF disposal markings and they are easily faked), Civilian police are only going as far as to ascertain if it is asset disposal or DND property. This is just a short list that would make my 2 lawyers, the criminal one for the win he would get, and the other for the malicious prosecution law suit . The criminal code and QR&Os are 2 different things, there are no QR&Os in my world anymore, I am sorry if you guys feel slighted or offended by this but if it were illeagal every surplus store owner would be in court and there would be a  Federal Government in to DND with several high ranking brass getting their heads handed to them. What you are seeing is media spin all those officers cited were from public affairs tasked with keeping public confidence in The Canadian Forces. Every time one of you gets a story about this in to the press ie. CBC story public affairs has to spin it. When you complain to the authorities nothing is going to happen because higher ups in DND and Gov't are already aware of it. It raises revenue to help pay for the new tanks, helicopters, and such, as well as your training & transport costs. If some of that cost can be defrayed by selling off outdated, defective, or worn kit that is a good thing. IRR tech is freely available on the commercial market, comm gear minus the encoding tech is available and legal. The only reason body armour is controled is that Law Enforcement do not want criminals having better stuff than they have but all you really need is military, LE, or security ID to purchase it privately and it is still legal to own when you are no long associated with said organizations. "This is much ado about nothing." 

 

[armyvern]

Hi Buckaroo,

It's the Defence Production Act - it is applicable to civilians - give it a read.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/d-1/

That's an Act of Parliament.

Not, the QR&Os - your mistake, but thanks for the laugh from yourself.

Acts of Parliament take precedence over the QR&Os.

 

[1feral1]

Hey Recon, what does this mean?

Its from your profile.

163d Inf Bn MNG USA (consultant)

Thanking you in advance,

OWDU

 

[geo]

I believe that's 163rd Inf Bn - Montana National Guard

 

[1feral1]

Not to hijack, but.....

I had never heard of anyone referring to term NG as Army National Guard, usually referred to as ARNG by anyone in the field.

In 1980-83 I worked often with the 1/163 Arm'd Cav out of Plentywood and Culbertson Montana in the days of their petrol powered (not diesel) 113's, after they had lost their 109's, and obviously since they went Infantry as of late.

Culbertson still had M60 tanks, and a new armoury with an indoor range for sub cal use.

Sask D's out of the 'Jaw also worked with them in the 80's.

Whats this civilian consultant thing? I have never heard of that either.

I did not know that a Montana ARNG Unit had a budget for a foreign 'consultant'. Yes, and a consultant to what exactly?

Sum up Sarge, the INet is full of interesting and mysterous people, in which many should be taken with a grain of salt in what they proclaim.

My quid on this.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Recon 3690]

Overwatch thats basically the unit' some friends in that unit got me the job, it was a training thing weapons repair, NBC, etc. I was renumerated out of unit funds. as for the listing, profile would not take it until I omitted some letters to shorten it up while still tryng to make it understood. That unit is now Mech Infantry.

 

[1feral1]

One can google 163d mng and you US postal stamps, google 163d arng and you get the right SM.

Please examine my profile, there is plenty of room in the Unit, MOC and military experience.

I take that is with the correct green card to be actually paid?

Unit funds? Weapons repair by a foreigner without a security clearance in a post 9-11 world? NBC what?

Mate I don't know who you are, but something is not right here.

Anything else on this, you take this to PMs and you can give me your telephone number if you like, and it will be my shout - thats our slang for it's my dime.

Regards,

OWDU