Unhappy Incidents

[Jaxson]

im not sure how it works with millitary training, but i happen to know that if i use my kick boxing experience and training in a bar fight, or street fight in anything more then defense (as in once he is down i keep hitting, or if he goes to run away and i chase him down) i am charged with assult with a deadly weapon because i have been trained specifically how to fight and do damage, i can only imagine military being alot more serious of a charge.

 

[Delta]

im not sure how it works with millitary training, but i happen to know that if i use my kick boxing experience and training in a bar fight, or street fight in anything more then defense (as in once he is down i keep hitting, or if he goes to run away and i chase him down) i am charged with assult with a deadly weapon because i have been trained specifically how to fight and do damage, i can only imagine military being alot more serious of a charge.

wtf?! who r u? american? canadians should be graceful, we don't solve problem sby force, we sit down and talk things over, this is the thing that makes canada unique

 

[NavComm]

I think the attitude expressed in his post is exactly what we need in the CF.

Tell that to the Queens' Own Rifles who have 3 members charged with beating a homeless man to death. They are innocent until proven guilty but if we promote the notion that it's ok to get beligerently violent over petty incidents, then we can't complain when the media puts a spotlight on us.

I think this attitude is not what we want. This mentality belittles the honour that soldiers so deserve in this country and around the world.

 

[Kat Stevens]

He didn't say he was GOING to thump them, he said he WANTED to thump them, and any soldier SHOULD want to if someone spits on him and his country's uniform.  It's the self control to not thump them that makes a good soldier, IMHO, of course....

Kat

 

[NavComm]

someone w/ NavComm's attitude should definitely join the CF

Delta I have joined the CF, and believe me, no one in my unit has expressed the need to speak with their fists to civvies in Vancouver. Yes, civvies piss us off, but it's not ok to beat the crap out of them.

People will always be insulted, no matter where in society you are. Do you think the people in Afghanistan are all going to be nice to you? Get a grip. If you don't have an order to use force on those spitters, then you better suck it up and move on.

Beating civilians in Canada is against the law. Full stop. No matter how justified you think you are.

As for the he didn't say he was going to, IMHO he did say that, read the post, he said he knows he doesn't have the right then asks if it wouldn't be considered self defense? He outlines what he will do if angry (talk with fists) then goes on to say that if someone makes him angry by spitting on him "he doesn't know what he would do" inferring he'd go to his basic instinct of talking with his fists.

I'm not saying there is no place for violence in society, I'm just loathe to think it should be enforced when some stupid civvie who believes that spitting on someone is 'free speech' should be beat up because some kid in uniform got angry. Save your violence for the real enemy. There's plenty of them.

 

[NavComm]

He didn't say he was GOING to thump them, he said he WANTED to thump them, and any soldier SHOULD want to if someone spits on him and his country's uniform.   It's the self control to not thump them that makes a good soldier, IMHO, of course....

Kat

With all due respect Kat, I think he made it clear what he would do.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Whatever you think.

 

[NavComm]

LOL I have re-read his post and maybe being female I am missing some important male thinking here. I don't claim to know anything about that macho thinking. But if you want a discussion on it, then splain it me lucy cause I'm not getting where it's ok to beat up civvies? And if you're saying he thinks it is ok but he knows it's not? What? Does this mean he will or he won't?

 

[Dirt Digger]

Only had one negative experience in uniform...happened in Victoria.  I was walking home from the bus stop after MILCON 91 and had some passenger in a car try to throw a half-full pop can at me.

Despite having my ruck on and a duffel bag on top of that, they missed.

My sister though had an incident walking to the Res HQ in Jerico, Vancouver (sometime in the early nineties) where a woman rolled her window down and drove along side of her, berating her for being in the military, a women in uniform, etc.

 

[NavComm]

I had only one incident in uniform while I was on general duties at my unit. I went for lunch and to the bank machine some very drunk man yelled "Salute Me". I ignored him and carried on. When I got in my car I noticed he was at the driver's side window and he indicated I should roll down the window. I did, all the while sizing him up, deciding how I would defend myself if need be. He told me some cock-n-bull story about being an interpreter for the UN and we had a chat and then he left.

I've not walked around civvie street much in uniform but when I have, I've been mostly ignored.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Personally for me when i am gonna be in the CF i am gonna wear my uniform and i am gonna be proud but if somebody pushes me it will be difficult for me not to punch him hard in the face ...but i don't have the right...but it could be considered as defence no ?

Sorry if speak with my fists and not with my head but it makes me angry knowing people that go spit or push there own soldiers...and its because of those Canadian soldiers that this pricks can sleep well at night and not worry about dying when they take the buss.....

Seriously i think i am gonna get really angry if somebody spit in my face in the middle of the street.....

Very cute.  Why don't you "'splain" to me where he says "I WILL beat up anyone who pisses me off in or out of uniform".  And yes, your female mind is probably incapable of understanding pride in ones uniform, and an insult to it.  Maybe in the navy you are taught to quietly sit down over a triple lo fat mocha latte and a nice chocolate biscotti, and discuss misplaced hostility.  If you don't get angry over such a thing, which is all he really said, maybe you do need to rethink your chosen vocation.

 

[NavComm]

Very cute.  Why don't you "'splain" to me where he says "I WILL beat up anyone who pisses me off in or out of uniform".  And yes, your female mind is probably incapable of understanding pride in ones uniform, and an insult to it.  Maybe in the navy you are taught to quietly sit down over a triple lo fat mocha latte and a nice chocolate biscotti, and discuss misplaced hostility.  If you don't get angry over such a thing, which is all he really said, maybe you do need to rethink your chosen vocation.

He didn't say he would beat them up? Then you and I must agree to disagree because I read he did.

I do have pride in my uniform, I"m just not willing to beat up some idiot that doesn't understand it to prove it.

That's not nice what you said about chocolate biscotti and mocha lattes. I only drink Tim Hortons, lrg 1 cream double sugar and I haven't eaten a biscotti in years.

I do get angry over it, I just don't think beating down civilians is the answer. I get very angry over it. I don't have the answers, I wish I did.

 

[Kat Stevens]

but if somebody pushes me it will be difficult for me not to punch him hard in the face ...but i don't have the right...but it could be considered as defence no ?
Seriously i think i am gonna get really angry if somebody spit in my face in the middle of the street

I still don't see where it says "I will beat them up".   But, I am merely a male, and therefore inevitably wrong, so you win.

 

[NavComm]

Personally for me when i am gonna be in the CF i am gonna wear my uniform and i am gonna be proud but if somebody pushes me it will be difficult for me not to punch him hard in the face ...but i don't have the right...but it could be considered as defence no ?

Sorry if speak with my fists and not with my head but it makes me angry knowing people that go spit or push there own soldiers...and its because of those Canadian soldiers that this pricks can sleep well at night and not worry about dying when they take the buss.....

Seriously i think i am gonna get really angry if somebody spit in my face in the middle of the street.....

All this difficulty leads me to believe he doesn't have the willpower to overcome it. This is a lot of difficulty for one person. If he finds it difficult he might just cave and his base instinct is to use his fists. Not a very disciplined person in my mind.

Granted I see where you are focussing but I come from a background of RCMP victim services and perhaps I read his message differently. That is my mindset and I understand yours. I just don't see how you or I could disagree this is a time bomb waiting to go off. He's not just saying he's proud of the uniform, he's identifying what he will do if someone else doesn't agree.

 

[Kat Stevens]

And I come from 23 years in the reg force combat arms, where controlled aggression is a way of life.  He can be controlled with training, he can not be taught to be aggressive.  His life will depend on turning it on and off someday.

 

[NavComm]

And I come from 23 years in the reg force combat arms, where controlled aggression is a way of life.   He can be controlled with training, he can not be taught to be aggressive.   His life will depend on turning it on and off someday.

Now that's a good answer. I will not argue with that. I just hope this guy's commanders have very good control over his aggression because we've seen, unfortunately, where that is not the case. His life or someone else's will depend on him turning it on or off. Let's hope it's his life  and not someone else's that depends on his ability to turn it off when necessary

 

[TCBF]

"Save your violence for the real enemy." - they ARE the real enemy.  The ones who daily erode freedoms descended from the Magna Carta and 1689 bill of rights, the ones who continually drive nails into the coffin of democracy, the ones who insist all men are NOT equal,and that equality depends on our ethnicity and language.  We are rapidly becoming a sub-arctic banana republic, and the enemy is within, not hiding in some cave half a world away.

I publicly wore a uniform to and from an armoury in the early seventies.  The Vietnam war was still on.  The pseudo-intellectuals did not make the connection between the Canadian Army that helped liberate Europe, and the CF of 1971.  I'd like to blame unification for that, but I somehow think we just got saddled with a sub-standard class of pseudo-intellectuals back in 1971.

Unfortunately, they are now our Judges, Premiers and Cabinet Ministers, etc.

Tom

 

[Delta]

Eh? What pile of sand did you pull your head from? We don't solve problems by force? I'm sure there are some Taliban and Bosnian warlords who would beg to differ, and thats only in the past 10 years or so.

Get off the high and lofty Canadian horse, won't get you far here.

i am just saying the use of force should be only used when it is the only option left.

 

[watson]

I pray to god no one spits on my uniform.

It would be the same as comming over to my house and setting fire to my Canadian flag  flying above my house...... Their body wouldn't leave my property... alive.

 

[NavComm]

"Save your violence for the real enemy." - they ARE the real enemy.  The ones who daily erode freedoms descended from the Magna Carta and 1689 bill of rights, the ones who continually drive nails into the coffin of democracy, the ones who insist all men are NOT equal,and that equality depends on our ethnicity and language.  We are rapidly becoming a sub-arctic banana republic, and the enemy is within, not hiding in some cave half a world away.

I publicly wore a uniform to and from an armoury in the early seventies.  The Vietnam war was still on.  The pseudo-intellectuals did not make the connection between the Canadian Army that helped liberate Europe, and the CF of 1971.  I'd like to blame unification for that, but I somehow think we just got saddled with a sub-standard class of pseudo-intellectuals back in 1971.

Unfortunately, they are now our Judges, Premiers and Cabinet Ministers, etc.

Tom

Thanks for the rhetoric Tom but we were actually discussing a topic. Do you or don't you think a guy who gets spit on in uniform in Canada should use brute force? That's the topic.