USN officer chooses "other than honourable discharge" over Iraq duty

[Kat Stevens]

Never mind, withdrawn, apologies to all.

 

[armyvern]

Again, who said she's a POS, as you stated earlier?  ???

It wasn't me, although I'm pretty sure he thinks so.

I think, she did the right thing and got the hell out.

I just think that spinning her "reasons" for her ultimate choice and trying to make them look "innocent" ... is bogus.

Again, her own comments about the "marines and the army fight the wars" gives her real reasons away -- the rest are excuses: she'd not be the first woman over there, nor the first jew, nor the first ethnic minority -- a fact that she's fully aware of. Those things seem only to have become an issue when it was she - in her naval uniform - who found herself being deployed into that Army position to do what others before her have done.

 

[Kat Stevens]

She also said it was a job she not trained to do, in an environment (re heritage and gender) that she would not be able to perform effectively.  Maybe if the Navy hadn't been so hard assed, and found her a more suitable gig, they wouldn't have lost an apparently outstanding officer.


PS  if I think something, I usually have no problem saying it.

 

[armyvern]

She also said it was a job she not trained to do, in an environment (re heritage and gender) that she would not be able to perform effectively.  Maybe if the Navy hadn't been so hard assed, and found her a more suitable gig, they wouldn't have lost an apparently outstanding officer.


PS  if I think something, I usually have no problem saying it.

Nor do I.

From her PER:

"Assign only to the most challenging jobs!"

Guess not.

The individual augmentee jobs typically include public works and reconstruction; training local forces in Afghanistan; medical care; protecting U.S. bases; interpreting laws, especially concerning contractor obligations; forging closer ties with communities in Afghanistan; handling detainees; and administrative work.

Sounds pretty purple to me.

That gave her pause, not only because she was not trained for the job, but also because she is of Japanese, Korean and Jewish ancestry.

"They were going to have me negotiate money transactions with Iraqi warlords. A woman of Jewish and East Asian descent to try to talk to men about money in a country where women aren't always allowed to handle money," Weiner says.

In the context of the article, absolutely no where does it state that she was not finance capable or trained. She does infer that she was not Army trained:

It minimizes the job and training we do for the Navy

Taken as a whole, I get the impression that she was finance trained (because the article distinctly AVOIDS all mention of her actual career training) ; it concentrates only on the fact that she was Navy -- not Army. It does hint that she was not "Army" trained, and, I'd even buy that. Not too many folks even in the army I'd argue who are specificly trained to hand money over to Muslim males -- she's absolutely no different from anyone else who has not specificly done THAT job.

However, she was GOING to be trained for that job. She failed to report for that training as per the articles own words. As a matter of fact, she was packing up to report for that training (after changing her mind about staying away from it while her complaint was in the system) when she was arrested.

Hmmmm. Exactly as we do pre-deployment training for the jobs we are being tasked into.

Her sex, background, religion has squat to do with anything. Or, should only women be exempt from deploying into Afghanistan because of their sex?? If these things are REALLY a concern for her -- then why wasn't she bringing forward complaints years ago about "females in a Muslim place and the risks to them?" "Jew in a Muslim place and the risk to them?" "Ethnic minorities in a Muslim place and the risk to them?"

Women have served there before her, as have Jews, and minorities. As probably have ethnic Jewish males. Why's she so special?? Other than the fact that she wears wore a Naval Uniform?

You'd think, actually, givien the glowing reviews that the Navy gave her with that "only the most challenging assignments" bit, that she'd have been able to pull this off without a problem.

Others before her certainly had done that job. After all, they were asking her to act as the FinO for the PRT, not a section commander for the infantry fighting outside the wire, and that would certainly have been even more challenging. But, that's not what she was asked. She was asked to perform in a purple role -- and didn't.

 

[Kat Stevens]

"That gave her pause, .not only because she was not trained for the job, but also because she is of Japanese, Korean and Jewish ancestry"




My point, I believe.  Never mind, you win,  bye now.

 

[armyvern]

"That gave her pause, .not only because she was not trained for the job, but also because she is of Japanese, Korean and Jewish ancestry"




My point, I believe.  Never mind, you win,  bye now.

You can have your point.

My point, so what? She WAS going to be trained to do the job; she said so herself. Read the article. Argument moot.

And, it seems perfectly fine for Jewish, Korean ancestry & Japanese ancestral males to serve there, and a hell of a lot of other women too. But, oh wait -- I guess they're wearing Army and Marine uniforms. And, that's the ONLY difference I see between her and the rest of them -- and it is the only difference that she concentrates her whines upon.  :

 

[tomahawk6]

There are alot of soldiers,marines,airmen and sailors doing jobs that are not their primary MOS. Its the nature of the beast. We have artillerymen operating as infanrty. Airmen and sailors are doing convoy security.
Alot of reservists of all stripes are serving as contract officers or on PRT's. As Vern stated her reasons are excuses. Only she can decide if the price she has paid will be steep. She has thrown away 11 years ,a bit over halfway to a retirement check not to mention a majority of her VA benefits. A heavy price in my judgement  for not going to the sandbox for a 6-12 month tour. There are around 11,000 USN personnel serving on the ground in CENTCOM's AO.

A different story about an IA.

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/08/navy_seabee_bronzestar_070807w/

Seabee earns Bronze Star for IA duty in Iraq

By Gidget Fuentes - Staff writer
Posted : Wednesday Aug 8, 2007 8:27:03 EDT
 
SAN DIEGO — For several years, Utilitiesman 1st Class Joshua Hullsiek saw fellow Navy Seabees go oversees to serve in the combat zone of Iraq.

Then, Hullsiek volunteered for a combat tour as an individual augmentee. “It’s just my duty to my country,” Hullsiek said.

For his year-long tour in Iraq as team sergeant of an Army-led civil affairs unit, the 30-year-old sailor from Minneapolis earned the Bronze Star medal for “exceptionally meritorious service.”

Hullsiek, who completed the tour in April, received the medal from Navy Capt. Steve Wirsching during an Aug. 6 ceremony at the Naval Facilities Engineering Command-Southwest Center in San Diego that was attended by his family and co-workers.

“I really wasn’t expecting it,” said Hullsiek, who works in the center’s self-help department at North Island Naval Air Station in Coronado.

Hullsiek is cited for his work in more than 250 combat patrols, 70 engagements with local contractors and 700 engagements with coalition forces helping map water, sewer and electrical networks while assigned to Alpha Company, 413th Civil Affairs Battalion, an Army Reserve unit.

His commanding officer in Iraq, Army Lt. Col. Robert D. Morschauser, recommended Hullsiek for the combat award and hailed the sailor’s initiative and drive in filling an Army captain’s billet. “This diversity in tasks demanded a skill level proficiency that was only encompassed by Hullsiek,” Morschauser wrote in a letter accompanying the recommendation. “If he were to stay in the U.S. Navy, I would instantly request to have him serve in my command. He will be a highly valuable asset to any organization fortunate to employ him,” the officer added.

Much of his time was spent in the Muhmadiyah area, including the towns of Yusufiyah and Latifiyah, and he also worked extensively with nongovernmental organizations including the Red Crescent and volunteer groups to help distribute donations to Iraqis.

Hullsiek said he particularly was moved by the reactions of Iraqi children who reveled in getting school supplies, backpacks and toys. “For the most part, it’s pretty rewarding,” he said.

Hullsiek said he prepared for the tour by reading books about the Iraqi culture and spent time with local interpreters to understand some of the language. He didn’t expect the poor living conditions some local Iraqi families endure, but he knows his team’s work in humanitarian assistance operations helped ease the life somewhat of those local residents.

Although he was the only sailor in the eight-member civil affairs team, he bonded tightly with the soldiers, and he maintains good friendships with them.

“You just make bonds with them, especially people in the war zone,” he said.

As team sergeant, Hullsiek was responsible for the overall security so the civil affairs soldiers could do their jobs. Although each team member had specific jobs, all of them eventually learned to share skills, which can be critical in a combat zone if things turn sour.

“Everyone on the team did everything,” he said. “You have to ... if something happened to the men.”

The team had its share of close calls.

“When you’re there for a year, you are bound to,” he said. “I was very fortunate.”

Hullsiek said he appreciates even more the work of the military civil affairs teams, noting, “You really feel like you are making a difference.”

For now, Hullsiek, who has a young daughter and whose fiancee is expecting their second child, is completing courses for his associate degree, and expects to finish his tour at the Southwest Center. But he hopes to join in the Navy’s fledgling civil affairs community, and he’s eager to go back “because it’s such a rewarding tour.”

“I’m proud of what I did over there,” he said. “I’m proud of being a Seabee.”

 

[childs56]

Look at the context here in Canada. Why don't you head up to most any Airforce base and ask the Aircraft Techs who have 15 or more years in if they would like to go to Afganistan as a Gate Guard, Truck Driver or other general job. See what the response is.

 

[Yrys]

if they would like to go to Afganistan as a Gate Guard, Truck Driver or other general job

Liking is one thing, refusing to do is another...

 

[medaid]

Look at the context here in Canada. Why don't you head up to most any Airforce base and ask the Aircraft Techs who have 15 or more years in if they would like to go to Afganistan as a Gate Guard, Truck Driver or other general job. See what the response is.

Bos'n already do that job. Gate guard. Some even got their behinds on QRFs if I recall correctly. Gone are the days when you can say "Look! My uniform's Black or Blue and that means I don't stand guards in a hostile place, I don't need to sleep in the mud, and I sure as hell don't need to do Army stuff"

Screw the argument of AVN or Air Frame techs, what bout MedTechs? When Golan was on alert you would've found MedTechs in the trenches along with their fellow what ever MOCs preparing to defend the camp. Argument moot.

IAs have good and bad results. It depends on what type of people you have and how motivated or dedicated they are. Many Naval pers cannot and SHOULD not fill roles typically filled by trained Army pers. In the case of this Naval Officer (yes I still refer to her as that, because despite her one fault she did serve her country) she took the punishment for her crimes and that's just that. She will be alienated in a country where the majority of the populace supports the military. As it has already been done.

The IA program has been met with mixed feelings by most of the US .mil pers that I have chatted with. One of them related a story to me that I could not believe.

As we all know the US forces operate PRTs similar to ours. A member of the PRT had told me of an instance where his team leader who was a Naval Lieutenant, refused to render aid to a patrol that had been engaged and was pinned down. The members of the PRT were the closest supporting unit, they were freshly equipped and armed. After arguing passionately for sometime the Navy Lt still said no. Aid eventually arrived, by then the patrol had suffered a number of casualties and the members of the PRT who were by the way all Army except the team leader, felt responsible. They could've helped but they were ordered not to.  In the member's own words:

"I was furious! I know the boys would never leave US unsupported if we came under contact and asked for help. The Navy just doesn't get it. They don't understand the idea of not leaving anyone behind."

Now obviously there were more colourful words that followed but they're not meant for general consumption.

Regardless I just wanted to illustrate that not all IAs are good people, and not all IAs should be filling jobs not suitable for their MOS (US) or MOC (CAN). A MARS O is unfit to lead a platoon, I'm sorry no matter what you say to me, it will not convince me. Unless they were a re muster from the Army. Just like an Inf O or heck an HCA is unfit to command a ship. They should not mix for a very good reason. I am often skeptic to CANFORGENS that call of any MOCs from rank of MCpl+. I mean, what does any MOC really mean? Surely not ALL the MOCs could do what that job entails?

By the by... the PRT officer? Was a Log O....

 

[vonGarvin]

I am of the opinion that this USN officer's decision to not serve, even though she volunteered for the Navy, was the wrong decision.  Having said that, she didn't run away.  She made her opinion clearly known, and she accepted her fate.  Unlike others who run away and whinge and whine that they are in an illegal or immoral war.  I may not agree with her but I do acknowledge the fact that she faced the music.