VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight

[Colin Parkinson]

His deck will be cleared for action if he wishes to enter politics and run in October.

 

[Jarnhamar]

His deck will be cleared for action if he wishes to enter politics and run in October.

I wonder if part of his secret "mutually accepted agreement" included not running for political office.

Either way looks like the real bad guys get off the hook.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It's over and done, without so much as a whimper. The story is finished.
Move along. Nothing to see here. Speculation is futile.
:rofl:

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

First of all, I have had the pleasure of meeting justice Winkler and therefore, fully trust that his mediation is quite certain to have resulted in a fair deal for all parties. I don't think that would include an agreement to "not enter" politics, as such agreement would be unconstitutional and in any event, beyond the purview of such agreements.

As for Mark: If you are reading through these fora, I say to tou:"Fair winds and a following sea", or as they say in Newfoundland: "May your big gib draw".

 

[FJAG]

A joint statement from Vice-Adm. Norman and the Department of National Defence says lawyers for both the Canadian government and the military officer have concluded conversations that have resulted in a mutually accepted agreement, and that the senior naval officer has decided not to return to his former post.

I can only hope that his lawyer was able to get a reasonable amount of true justice for the Vice-Adm.

I wonder if he got as much as Khadr?

 

[ballz]

The settlement money was spent out of public money, approved through some mechanism that is authorized by legislation and by someone, under that legislation, with authority to do so, either at TB or the MND (if he had authority). The other details of the sentence aside, I'm curious to know how an amount like this would not be public info if an ATI were submitted.

 

[FJAG]

The settlement money was spent out of public money, approved through some mechanism that is authorized by legislation and by someone, under that legislation, with authority to do so, either at TB or the MND (if he had authority). The other details of the sentence aside, I'm curious to know how an amount like this would not be public info if an ATI were submitted.

Cabinet confidence!

 

[ballz]

Cabinet confidence!

Could that actually be possible? Seems like beyond a slippery slope to me that Cabinet could just simply declare any expense they want as a secret.

 

[dapaterson]

My understanding is that Justice holds funding for the GoC to settle such actions; gross amounts paid annually are presumably reported through annual reports to government, but the breakdown of $50 to Norman, $125 000 to FJAG etc would not be provided.

 

[ballz]

My understanding is that Justice holds funding for the GoC to settle such actions; gross amounts paid annually are presumably reported through annual reports to government, but the breakdown of $50 to Norman, $125 000 to FJAG etc would not be provided.

Listening to Tim Powers on Power and Politics, he says this will be on the public accounts as a discretionary expense somewhere... and that a savvy person can probably drill it down to see the changes in the books. He's not wrong, the government uses accrual accounting and so as soon as this agreement is made, it goes on the books immediately as an expense and an accounts payable. So a review of the public accounts for 26 Jul, for example, might show a "discretionary expense" and corresponding accounts payable for $X,000,000.

Of course, that's if it doesn't get out before then... he was surprised the secret has lasted three hours already.

So sure, maybe an ATI for "How much was VAdm Norman's settlement" might be somehow protected but reviewing the books, you will see it there on the ledger somewhere, even as a vaguely labelled expense.

 

[dapaterson]

A quick google found a 2015 story about 2014-15's $575M in settlements.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/lawsuit-settlements-cost-federal-government-more-than-575m-in-2015

 

[dapaterson]

Found it.  Volume III of the Public Accounts.  For 2017-18:

Claims against the Crown:
https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/recgen/cpc-pac/2018/vol3/s8/prce-pcac-eng.html

Ex Gratia payments:
https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/recgen/cpc-pac/2018/vol3/s8/ptg-egp-eng.html

Court Awards:
https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/recgen/cpc-pac/2018/vol3/s8/mapuc-ca-eng.html

 

[ballz]

Right, so if that's published every year then it should be pretty easy to pinpoint.... start there the "name withheld" amounts under DND and then hit the ledgers to find the dates they were paid, and then decide which one makes sense with the amount and date. His legal bills were going to be paid, so it's not like they could leverage financial hardship to buy his silence... I'd be shocked if it was below 7 figures.

 

[observor 69]

Just rumbling through Google and on civy street "compensation for wrongful dismissal" can often be one years salary. Not sure how applicable that would be to this situation? What's a Vice Admiral's annual salary..... $125000 range?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I think that is fairly low for the VCDS.

 

[dapaterson]

Current VAdm / LGen pay scale, monthly rates.

Lieutenant-General
20683 21244 21833 22392
(TB, 30 May 2019, effective 1 April 2018)

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/benefits-military/pay-pension-benefits/pay/officers.html#lieutenantgeneral

 

[MarkOttawa]

Two thinner bands, three leafs pay around $250,000:
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/benefits-military/pay-pension-benefits/pay/officers.html#lieutenantgeneral

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . . What's a Vice Admiral's annual salary..... $125000 range?

That's what LCols make.  For a three star - double the above amount and add 18 grand.  And even then he's making less than some Medical Officer Majors.

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . .  or as they say in Newfoundland: "May your big gib draw".

You know, I've never said that even once, but if I had to in order to prove I was a Newf, I'd use "jib" correctly.

 

[FJAG]

Just rumbling through Google and on civy street "compensation for wrongful dismissal" can often be one years salary. Not sure how applicable that would be to this situation? What's a Vice Admiral's annual salary..... $125000 range?

The calculation is much more complicated than that and depends very much on the terms of the contract of employment, length of service, opportunity to find a replacement income and other factors. The more senior the employee the more complex the calculation.

If there is any general rule of thumb it's one month of salary and benefits for every year of service which would equate to roughly three years compensation for him but I'm not sure how close he was to CRA as that would be a limiting factor.

Don't forget that there is also a the fact that he was treated shabbily, put through extreme mental pressure and his reputation dragged through the dirt. That would up the settlement significantly.

:cheers: