VC Won in Iraq

[ZipperHead]

Michael, I never meant to try to diminish Pte Barry's gallantry. Just slam our system.

As for OMM and MMM, I don't know anybody that has received one of those. I know or know of people that have received the MSM, MB, and MID, and all for good reasons (heroic acts that saved soldiers or civilians lives in the Balkans). I have also heard of people getting other orders or decorations for less than heroic exploits (the less said the better), but they certainly look good pinned to these individuals chests......

It's all about who you save, who writes the recommendations, and who sees you doing it....... I think that some people only recommend pers for awards so that THEY look good, not neccesarily that the other pers actually deserves it. We used to joke in Bosnia about throwing our Troop Leader into a mine field that we already had covertly marked and cleared safe areas. We'd all crawl in, with camera crews filming, get our VC's, MB, Star of Courage, whatever, and never have to go on parade again (how true that is, I still wonder....). If the Tp Ldr was killed or injured, that's the price of fame  ;D.

I seem to remember my buddy, who was more of a military history buff than I am, tell me about the numbers of officers getting medals in Korea, vs the number that the soldiers received. It seems it was the opposite ratio of what the US awarded. Not that I was shocked to hear that, but still a little disheartening. As I recall from him telling me, there was an officer that received a medal for action that his unit saw, and he wasn't even in the country at the time. Didn't turn it down, either, I guess.

Anyway, don't want this thread to veer off of what it was supposed to: acknowledge the heroics of a fellow soldier. I never did find out or hear how the fella made out (recovering from his wounds and all). Does anybody have that info???

Al

 

[Michael Dorosh]

As I recall from him telling me, there was an officer that received a medal for action that his unit saw, and he wasn't even in the country at the time. Didn't turn it down, either, I guess.

Not completely unlikely, if he was being recognized for having trained that unit and not for gallantry - but you're right, this may properly be the subject of a seperate thread.

 

[Bill Smy]

LONDON (AFP) - A British soldier who braved gunfire to rescue dozens of comrades in southern Iraq (news - web sites) is to receive the first Victoria Cross, the military's top award for bravery. It's the first such medal issued in 23 years, a report said.......

If Barry's receipt of the Victoria Cross, or VC, is formally approved it will be the first such bravery award since 1982, when two British soldiers were honoured for their actions in the Falklands War against Argentina.

I'm a bit confused. How can the first statement be true if it is qualified by the second?

 

[jmacleod]

Canada dispensed with Commonwealth (British) medals some time ago. Canada has it's own version
of the Victoria Cross, decipted on a new issue Canada postage stamp last year. No Canadian VC's
have been issued of course. I am not impressed with Canada's military medals - Order of Military
Merit, OMM, or the rather strange Star of Courage. The Distingushed Service Cross (DSC), the
Military Cross (MC), Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC) have real meaning in the military and beyond
for receipiants and their families. The award of a VC to a British soldier serving in Operation Telic Iraq
will be on the Queen's Honors List in April 2005 I understand. Very little about this in the major UK
media at present, and nothing on the UK MOD site at the moment. MacLeod

 

[bossi]

Canada dispensed with Commonwealth (British) medals some time ago. Canada has it's own version
of the Victoria Cross, decipted on a new issue Canada postage stamp last year. No Canadian VC's
have been issued of course. I am not impressed with Canada's military medals - Order of Military
Merit, OMM, or the rather strange Star of Courage.

However, the VC was reintroduced back into the wall chart of ribbons you'll find in the military tailor's shop next time you're there, and it still supercedes Canada's Cross of Valour (which is significant).

As for the "Canada's own verion of the VC", basically it's my understanding that military versions of only the Star of Courage and Medal of Bravery have been introduced - essentially to more appropriately differentiate Canadian military bravery from civilian (i.e. they've added Star of Military Valour (S.M.V.) and Medal of Military Valour (M.M.V.), but unlike the differentiation between the VC and George Cross we'll only have the Cross of Valour).

Having said all of the above, it would do all of us a world of good to visit the GG's website from time to time (in fact, I'm working on a bill to make it mandatory teaching in Canada's schools ... stay tuned ...)

http://www.gg.ca/honours/brav-val_e.asp

 

[Guardian]

As for the "Canada's own verion of the VC", basically it's my understanding that military versions of only the Star of Courage and Medal of Bravery have been introduced - essentially to more appropriately differentiate Canadian military bravery from civilian (i.e. they've added Star of Military Valour (S.M.V.) and Medal of Military Valour (M.M.V.), but unlike the differentiation between the VC and George Cross we'll only have the Cross of Valour).

No, there is actually a Canadian VC that's been introduced - the difference between that and the original is the use of the Latin "Pro Valore" instead of the English "For Valour" on the front of the medal.  The CV will not be awarded for gallantry in the face of the enemy.

 

[George Wallace]

No, there is actually a Canadian VC that's been introduced - the difference between that and the original is the use of the Latin "Pro Valore" instead of the English "For Valour" on the front of the medal. The CV will not be awarded for gallantry in the face of the enemy.

Please!

We have gone over all this before.  Please do a search.

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=collections/cmdp/mainmenu/group02/canvc

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=collections/cmdp/mainmenu

http://www.gg.ca/honours/ordprec_e.asp

 

[jmacleod]

Bossi and Guardian are right. The "Canadian VC" is illustrated on a Canada Post Victoria Cross issue
in October-November 2004. The Canadian version is smaller than the traditional VC, and takes
precedence over all other awards for Valor. The design by Canada Post for their VC issue is
truly outstanding, and should be in the possession of any Canadian focused on the Canadian
Military. The centre piece of the VC Stamp Issue is a list of all Canadian VC winners, from the
Crimean War to World War II - and some of the names of those who won the VC in World
War II are not familier. But, having said this, I do not believe any of the Canadian VC medals
have actually been struck - even the British have a problem with the bronze metal used to
create a VC - there is only enough metal for another 87 medals from the original Russian
cannons captured in the Crimea. MacLeod

 

[Acorn]

Perhaps it's time for one of our DS to calve the Canadian Honours discussion off from the VC in Iraq thread.

That being said, what most disturbs me about how decorations have been awarded is the distinct lack of award from military specific decorations. For example, the recent award of MBs to the guys involved in the mine strike in A'stan seems out of place. They were reacting to a deliberate attack (mines are not usually placed in roads by accident, and that route had been recently cleared). If their actions justified an award for courage, why not the MMV vice the MB?

I've seen similar things with the MSC/MSM awarded in some cases in Bosnia. If I were into conspiracies I'd think our Honours Committee is shy of any mention of "enemy" in a citation, regardless of whether Canadian soldiers are being shot at with intent.

Acorn

 

[Kat Stevens]

I think I remember reading about that cook in MAPLE LEAF and was a bit surprised at what the big deal was.

My bad - I thought maybe you were slamming the OMM or MMM, as I feel they do go to deserving recipients.

Commendations are just that; not a big deal, and I agree the hero who saved the people in the building should have merited a more substantial award than the egg flipper.   I have written in more than once to the now defunct Sentinel et al to ask why troops incorrectly dressed were being done the honour of having their photographs printed.   Your bear marching left handed saluter sounds very much like the kind of person that usually makes the front page.

He learned from the best... remember our PM on the front page with his piss-pot on backwards?

CHIMO,  Kat

 

[Michael Dorosh]

He learned from the best... remember our PM on the front page with his piss-pot on backwards?

CHIMO,  Kat

How much military training did the Prime Minister receive?  I'm not sure what your point is.

CHIMO

 

[Kat Stevens]

How much military training did the Prime Minister receive?  I'm not sure what your point is.

CHIMO

No point, except that we all jump to pillory a REMF Cpl who has probably never been called out on parade before and succumbed to a case of nerves.  But a world leader, surrounded by a gazillion majors, captains, and assorted other detritus who DO have some military training, was allowed to appear as a buffoon.  Not ONE of his entourage said anything?  Where does the ridicule belong, really?

CHIMO,  Kat

 

[DELTADOG13]

The MB's you talk about in Afghanistan were actually a different commendation. Mcpl Jay Hamilton and Cpl Dan Matthews were awarded the Star of Courage not Medals for Bravery as stated above. Also Sgt(now WO) Teddy Hughson and Cpl(now Ret'd) Brian Duval received a Mention in Dispatches for the same incident. These awards were for disregarding their own safety to attempt a rescue of their comrades. Yes, its true that it was a delberate attack by Anti Coalition Forces to persuade the Canadian people to leave Afghanistan through our handling of casualties. Canada perserved in the great honour of these fallen comrades of the RCR. As we speak the honours list for the suicide bombing of Jan 04 is still ongoing.
RIP " SHORTY, ROB AND MURPH "

 

[ZipperHead]

But a world leader, surrounded by a gazillion majors, captains, and assorted other detritus who DO have some military training, was allowed to appear as a buffoon.  Not ONE of his entourage said anything?  Where does the ridicule belong, really?

That whole thing with Chretien with his helmet on backwards was blown out of proportion. One of my buddies was there when it happened, and the helmet was on his head backwards for all of a few seconds (long enough for someone to take that infamous photo though  :warstory: ). One of his lackey's (probably A de C) sorted it out, but the proverbial damage was done (and caught on film for posterity). It's kind of funny, as I have a photo of my wife wearing a crew helmet backward when she took a tank out for a spin on one of our Regt's family days. I bugged her about it, of course  >

Al

 

[Kat Stevens]

Al, I get what you're saying completely, and agree.  Before Jean baby was ever allowed near that skid-lid, he should have been shown fore from aft, as it were....

CHIMO,  Kat

 

[pcain]

it's official -


British soldier awarded Victoria Cross for Iraq bravery
Award is first since Falklands War, first to a living person since 1965

Associated Press

LONDON â ” A British soldier who saved 30 comrades during a nighttime ambush in Iraq has been awarded the Victoria Cross, becoming the first recipient of the country's top military honour in more than 20 years.
The award citation said Pte. Johnson Beharry, 25, driver of a Warrior armoured vehicle with the Princess of Wales's Royal Regiment, â Å“carried out two individual acts of great heroism by which he saved the lives of his comrades.â ?
In the first, he led a six-vehicle convoy through heavy fire in the southern Iraq town Amarah in May 2004, delivering the troops to a secure area and returning twice to the vehicle under fire to carry the wounded to safety.
A month later, his vehicle was again hit and he sustained head injuries but was able to drive his troops to safety. Beharry needed brain surgery and is still recovering.
â Å“Maybe I was brave, I don't know,â ? he said.
â Å“At the time I was just doing the job, I didn't have time for other thoughts.â ?
Beharry is the first living recipient of the award since 1965. It was posthumously awarded to two servicemen killed in the 1982 Falklands War.
Born on the Caribbean island Grenada, Beharry moved to Britain in 1999 and joined the army in 2001.
19:46ET 17-03-05

 

[pcain]

worth noting: the four other gallantry medals awarded went to a signaller, a (reservist) logistician and two infanteers:

Sergeant Terry BRYAN, Royal Regiment of Artillery was awarded a Conspicuous Gallantry Cross for his bravery during a fire fight with Muqtada Al Sadr's militia in Basra, August 2004. Ambushed by the insurgents Bryan's patrol were forced to abandon their vehicles under heavy fire and seek shelter in a nearby house. Forty militiamen surrounded the house pouring fire at the British from rocket-propelled grenades, small arms and heavy machine guns. Despite injuries to his legs and eye Bryan visited each of his men in their own individual positions as the fierce fire fight went on. Encouraging and supporting the younger soldiers of his section he helped to keep the insurgents at bay until he and his section were evacuated. A communications specialist by trade, Sergeant Bryan demonstrated outstanding leadership, professionalism and individual bravery in a dangerous and ever-changing situation which saved the lives of his men.
   
  Lance Corporal Andrew George DICKSON, a TA soldier with the Royal Logistics Corps, received the Military Cross on his first operational tour of Iraq after being in theatre for only five days. On 8 May 2004 Dickson was part of a convoy escorting water tankers in Basra. Riding in a soft-covered Land Rover he was providing top cover when the convoy was ambushed. From their armoured vehicles other infantry escorts engaged the enemy but Dickson from his exposed position in the Land Rover returned fire as well despite being wounded in his left shoulder. His bravery helped to ensure the safety of the tankers and their drivers. 
   
  The Queen's Gallantry Medal was awarded to Corporal Peter WILLIAM MC of the Black Watch for his bravery after a suicide bomb attack in North Babil in Iraq. On 4 November 2004, despite suffering serious injuries himself, Corporal Laing dragged each of his wounded colleagues to safety and administered first aid. The citation highlighted his firm leadership and complete lack of self interest in the successful treatment and recovery of his section. 
   
  Private Jonetani Matia LAWACI, also of the Black Watch, received a Queen's Gallantry Medal for his brave rescue of three colleagues who almost drowned when their Warrior plunged off a bridge in North Babil into deep water on 29 October 2004. He was cited for his quick thinking and extreme courage.
   

 

[tomahawk6]

Well Done !!

http://www.news.mod.uk/news_headline_story.asp?newsItem_id=3169

 

[Infanteer]

No kidding.

Great thing to behold.  I've always been amazed by that award - we have one in my old Regiment's museum.  It is so plain, dull and unassuming, but when you look at it, you know that the stuff of heroism lies behind it.

Pro Valore

 

[readyfourzero]

It makes you feel very humble doesn't it?  Great deeds of selflessness by a young soldier, he should be very proud of what he has done and what every soldier should aspire to.  I read the extract of his deeds to my troops this morning and for the first time in along time there was absolute silence!

The unit involved in the action, 1st Bn The Princess of Wales' Royal Regiment, an Armoured Infantry Bn that recruits from South East England and stationed in Tidworth in Hampshire, has picked up the following as well as Pte Beharrys' VC. 

2 Members of the British Empire, 7 Military Cross, 1 Distinguished Service Order, 2 Conspicuous Service Cross, 1 Queens Commodation for Valuable Service and 11 Mention in Dispatches.

Micheal Jackson - No not that one - General Sir Michael Jackson, Chief of the General Staff has said:

"I cannot remember when I was last as proud of the Army as I am now"

It's probably come at a good time with all this bullying and abuse of prisoners of war that has been apparently going on.