"Vibe" of CIS-White men [Road Split from: Sexual Misconduct in the CAF

[Lumber]

Does it? You were the one that brought white male privilege vibe into the thread...

Yes, I did, and I'll restate again, it was never my intent to actually bring-up and discuss white male privilege. I did chose to use the example of white male privilege to describe the vibe I was feeling, but I could very well have picked a different privileged group. I could have said I was getting a very "affluent Laurentian" vibe and essentially meant the same thing.

feel free to correct me, the implication that there was an overwhelming input from privileged white males to suppress the validity of the angst felt by women regarding the plight of sexual assault.

Mostly correct, I just wouldn't say there was an "overwhelming" input, just a few things that created a bit of a vibe. Also, again, I wasn't identifying the vibe as being created by posts by white males. The posts that created the vibe could have all been from black women, and I still would have said I was getting a "privilege white male" vibe.

I can see no example in this entire thread where your implication was validated by specific members (privileged white males or otherwise).

See @KevinB's response to MJP. His original post, which he apologized for, was the one that had the greatest effect on generating the vibe I was feeling.

I will restate, that I do believe that in the majority of situations related to sexual assault, that women generally are the ones to near the brunt of systemic biases, and that unfortunately that directly impacts their willingness to report and to proceed further in support of prosecution even if they have reported a sexual assault.

That said, my example and questions were related to the very valid case of how to treat situation that contradict a more recently contrived concept of white male privilege. Something that few people of any group seem to put any thought or consideration into.

For the record, my questions were personally-based. They were not hypothetical. I’ll let that sink in for you.

And I absolutely do not want to take away from or invalidate your own experiences, but when we are talking about something (white male privilege) that spans across two continents (NA and Europe) a personal anecdote does not provide sufficient evidence to contradict the existence of white male privilege. That being said, your personal experience does add real value to the conversation, and I appreciate your contribution.

Not cool. Wasn’t cool. Never will be cool. Never should be considered an invalid concern just because a victim belongs to a specific, trendy blanket group.

G2G

Edit: p.s. non-CIS does not uniquely equate to trans-gender

I'm going to clarify and apologize here; "cool" in this context doesn't actually mean "that's cool", it just means "I understand", or "fine", or "I acquiesce" as in "Ok, I understand ("cool"), I will accept your assertion."

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with this statement, but holy hole in a doughnut Batman, that's a bold statement to make considering how much fervor there is in society claiming it is entirely the police's fault. That's #CancelHalifaxTar level of going against the accept narrative, so, kudos to you for your courage.

Notice I used the term "society" and didn't identify a race or gender. Because this is everything about our, a whole societal, failing relationship with our police forces. Anyone who chants ACAB or blindly hates the police is just as much a part of the problem as the crooked/corrupt/violent cops, of which there are many, who give their profession a bad name.

A good example is the NS mass murder. We need to be able expect and receive more from our LEOs and their parent organizations. This and two distinct other interactions I've had with HRPD have definitely tainted my view of LEOs. But I have to recognize that bias and realize not all police are those people.

Those LEOs who abuse the public need swift and exact justice, and its the same for those who ambush or abuse LEOs.

We absolutely have to repair this relationship.

As for your hashtag, if we cant discuss positions and provide opposition to a reigning narrative what have we become ?

 

[Lumber]

As for your hashtag, if we cant discuss positions and provide opposition to a reigning narrative what have we become ?

A society of people who believe its their right to never "be upset" by anything or anyone, unfortunately.

 

[Halifax Tar]

A society of people who believe its their right to never "be upset" by anything or anyone, unfortunately.

So we're feeling the implications of shitty parenting for the last generation.

 

[Brad Sallows]

So why would store owners start following immigrants around?

If the point now is that "privilege" exists for me because of something someone else is doing to yet another someone else, then it's out of my hands. I'm not about to start lifting stuff off shelves.

[Add: can't be much of a "privilege" if I can erase it just by walking through the right neighbourhood.]

 

[Lumber]

So why would store owners start following immigrants around?

If the point now is that "privilege" exists for me because of something someone else is doing to yet another someone else, then it's out of my hands. I'm not about to start lifting stuff off shelves.

[Add: can't be much of a "privilege" if I can erase it just by walking through the right neighbourhood.]

I don't know what else to tell you, Brad. I've given you the text book definition of privilege and given both hypothetical and real words examples of this definition of privilege.

To specifically address your "addition", I disagree and think you're actually making my point. Like I said before, privilege is not universal, its situational. You have the privilege walking safely through some neighborhoods, while others have the privilege of walking through other different neighborhoods. A black person might not have the privilege of walking through an affluent white neighborhood in a conservatives white town without being glared at, heckled, accosted, or even stopped by the police "for suspicion". Conversely, an affluent white person from that same neighborhood might not have the privilege of walking through a poor black inner-city community without feeling fear or being harassed.

 

[Brad Sallows]

By the "textbook definition", pretty much everything in this world is privilege for someone. If everything is special, none of it really is. Situational isn't systemic. Congratulations. "Privilege" exists as defined, and it's meaningless.

 

[Lumber]

By the "textbook definition", pretty much everything in this world is privilege for someone. If everything is special, none of it really is. Situational isn't systemic. Congratulations. "Privilege" exists as defined, and it's meaningless.

Agree with your first part, but not your second part. You may be able to categorize everything as a privilege, but not all privileges are the same. Some are harmless, and some are not. There are many privileges that senior NCMs and Jr. officers aboard ship enjoy that the Jr. ranks do not, but it's nothing to make a big deal out of. On the other hand, when you realize that in certain localities (in fact, many localities) the colour of your skin (or gender, or religion, etc) brings with it privileges (or lack thereof) that do have a direct impact on people's lives, then it isn't meaningless, it's a problem.

People with privilege don't need to feel attacked about having their privilege pointed out. Having privilege doesn't make you a bad person. It's like being ignorant. If I tell you you are making a mistake because you are unaware of some fact (i.e. you're ignorant), that's not me judging you negatively, that's just me pointing out that you lack critical info. With respect to privilege, it's not that you are in any way a bad person yourself because you have the privilege of running down the street without fear or browsing shops without anxiety; rather, your privilege, like ignorance, can blind you to the plight of others, and therefore prevent or stimmy efforts to alleviate the plight of others. I.e. "We don't need police reform, I've never had a copy be anything but polite to me!"

 

[mariomike]

Seems to come down to those few precious seconds you have to make a good "first impression" .

You may be the nicest person, with excellent job technical skills.

But, strangers don't have, or don't take, the time to learn that. Human nature is to make fast judgements.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Meanwhile, from a BIPOC author:

The Dehumanizing Condescension of White Fragility​

The popular book aims to combat racism but talks down to Black people.

John McWhorter

The Atlantic covers news, politics, culture, technology, health, and more, through its articles, podcasts, videos, and flagship magazine.

www.theatlantic.com

"In 2020—as opposed to 1920—I neither need nor want anyone to muse on how whiteness privileges them over me. Nor do I need wider society to undergo teachings in how to be exquisitely sensitive about my feelings. I see no connection between DiAngelo’s brand of reeducation and vigorous, constructive activism in the real world on issues of import to the Black community. And I cannot imagine that any Black readers could willingly submit themselves to DiAngelo’s ideas while considering themselves adults of ordinary self-regard and strength. Few books about race have more openly infantilized Black people than this supposedly authoritative tome."

The Dehumanizing Condescension of 'White Fragility'

The popular book aims to combat racism but talks down to Black people.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Brad Sallows]

The propaganda war for people not feeling attacked was lost as soon as some people started hectoring others with "check your privilege".

The presumption that people might be ignorant is amusing. I've understood the truth about rough neighbourhoods since I was old enough to read Mad magazine.

The problem seems not to be that there is "privilege" (status quo), but that there is "anti-privilege". People don't always rise to the occasion; film at 11.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with this statement, but holy hole in a doughnut Batman, that's a bold statement to make considering how much fervor there is in society claiming it is entirely the police's fault. That's #CancelHalifaxTar level of going against the accepted narrative, so, kudos to you for your courage.


New? Check my profile; I've been a member only 2 years less than you. Also, there's tangents that flow naturally from the core discussion, and then there's curve balls that come out of nowhere. The brining-up of sexual assaults committed by trans people I would consider the latter.

I can’t believe I have to explain the “are you new or something?” portion of my post. So I won’t. You may want to take yourself a little less seriously, your getting more than a little hell fire and brimstone vibe going on here.

 

[Lumber]

I can’t believe I have to explain the “are you new or something?” portion of my post. So I won’t. You may want to take yourself a little less seriously, your getting more than a little hell fire and brimstone vibe going on here.

Why would I do that? This entire thread exists because of me. It's my spawn and I take parenting seriously!

 

[Lumber]

The problem seems not to be that there is "privilege" (status quo), but that there is "anti-privilege". People don't always rise to the occasion; film at 11.

Exactly! See, we are actually on the same page a lot more than you think. The problem really is with the "anti-privilege" (though I think lack of privilege would be more apt).

The other issue, again, is that in this dichotomy, those with privilege have a real ability to affect change that could better the situation of those without privilege, but their privilege (as I alluded to earlier) can often blind them or detract them from doing anything about the plight of others. Sometimes your privilege can blind you to disadvantages of others (e.g. you can't imagine that someone could be sexually assault by intimidation alone so you don't think such a thing exists at all), and sometimes your privilege can simply take away any motivation to do anything at all (e.g. I'm well fed and housed, so I'm really unmotivated to do anything to help with food and housing security issues... or maybe I'm just lazy...).

 

[OldSolduer]

Here is a question for y'all:

Who decides who has "privilege"?

 

[PuckChaser]

Here is a question for y'all:

Who decides who has "privilege"?

Whoever needs to shout down intelligent debate.

 

[Good2Golf]

Here is a question for y'all:

Who decides who has "privilege"?

Actual privilege, or angry pitchfork mob decreed privilege?

 

[Lumber]

Actual privilege, or angry pitchfork mob decreed privilege?

Thank you. I was just writing a response to Puckchaser, but I think you pointing this out will give it more validity.

Privilege is real. No one decides what is and isn't privilege, you just observe it in the world around you. Like anything else, there's a range and a spectrum. Some stuff is obviously privilege, and some stuff is obviously not. We can debate the margins and where the "line" is, but ultimately the further you go in one direction or the other, the more concrete it is.

 

[Lumber]

Whoever needs to shout down intelligent debate.

Just because there are assholes making you feel bad about who you are doesn't mean that none of what they are saying is true.

It's like racism in the US. A lot of people have a lot of hate for the BLM organization; just because BLM organization and supporters can act like total assholes and anarchists doesn't mean that there isn't racism to be dealt with in the states.

Similarly, just because people will shout you down and not let you talk because they say that you don't have the right to an opinion because of your privilege doesn't necessarily mean that you don't have privilege, and especially it doesn't mean that there aren't underlying issues that created the privilege that should be addressed.

So, yes, someone might use "privilege" to shout down intelligent debate, but unless you want to be as bad as them, you need to ignore them, and carry on with your intelligent debate about the underlying issues that lead to the privilege/anti-privilege dichotomy.

 

[Journeyman]

8 pages and still no one has explained the frequency at which CIS males supposedly vibrate.