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"Vibe" of CIS-White men [Road Split from: Sexual Misconduct in the CAF

Brad Sallows

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The web is full of tripe written by people claiming to know about the experience of white men, or just white people in general, and how their lives are full of "privilege". I don't play their game. I call bullsh!t on projecting their imagination and neuroses as fact and on the idea that "privilege" is not earned. Doesn't sound as special if it's just an "ordinary people vibe" they give off, I suppose. If people who looked like me started misbehaving en masse and as a consequence I found myself singled out, I'd either tolerate it or change a bit. I certainly wouldn't don a disreputable uniform by choice and complain when people react badly to it, or nominate ordinary useful human behaviours for being somehow disreputable (the universe of "white-acting" bullsh!t).
 

CBH99

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The "vibe you are feeling" is something you create in your imagination, not something other people actually give off. It's your experiences and prejudices colouring something you observe. That's on the observer, not the observed. I could just as easily surmise that I've never gotten flak from authorities because I don't skulk around in a hoodie listening to rap, nor do I drive my car erratically making excessive tire and engine noise while wearing a sweat-stained white t-shirt and a three-day growth of beard and with Motley Crue blaring from the stereo.
Wait wait wait…

blaring rap & skulking around in a dirty hoodie, smoking a J - AAANNNNDDDD having a mullet while squealing your tires as you race towards nowhere listening to Motley Crue!?


White male or not, your privileges have been revoked sir.
 

daftandbarmy

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Here's an idea: CAF to introduce a mandatory self-reflection activity at all future Mess Dinners along the lines of this example.

Go ahead and use my idea for your PER 'Leading Change Points'. You're welcome, future GOFOs ;)

This dinner party asked white women to acknowledge their own racism​


‘How many of you would trade places with a Black person in this society?’ | Deconstructing Karen​


Regina Jackson, one of the founders of Race2Dinner, asks dinner guests a question; some find it difficult to answer.

The crystal is polished. The china is pristine. The candles are lit.

The scene is set for what makes any dinner party memorable: the promise of raw, insightful, provocative conversation. The guests are varied in terms of their age, life experiences, level of education and political leanings. But they all have one critical thing in common: they are all white women.

They've gathered to experience radical honesty on racism — their role in upholding it, their conditioning to ignore it, and the essential part they can play in tearing down the systems that are killing Black and brown people in America every single day.

It's a dinner party facilitated by Race2Dinner: hosted in a white woman's home, with eight white guests, lasting two hours.

Regina Jackson and Saira Rao lead the conversation. Jackson was born in 1950 and remembers an America where "everything was in Black and white." Rao is the daughter of Indian immigrants and says she spent a large portion of her life aspiring to be white. In 2019, they founded Race2Dinner to help white women learn how they uphold white supremacy.

"The only thing that's going to change this is if we change the cultural DNA," Rao says in the documentary Deconstructing Karen.
"And the only way you can change the cultural DNA is through personal, human interactions. And we know that breaking bread with people is the best way to do that."

After explaining the one rule for the evening — "If you're going to cry, leave the table" — Rao asks the first question of the evening:

 

KevinB

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Here's an idea: CAF to introduce a mandatory self-reflection activity at all future Mess Dinners along the lines of this example.

Go ahead and use my idea for your PER 'Leading Change Points'. You're welcome, future GOFOs ;)

This dinner party asked white women to acknowledge their own racism​


‘How many of you would trade places with a Black person in this society?’ | Deconstructing Karen​


Regina Jackson, one of the founders of Race2Dinner, asks dinner guests a question; some find it difficult to answer.

The crystal is polished. The china is pristine. The candles are lit.

The scene is set for what makes any dinner party memorable: the promise of raw, insightful, provocative conversation. The guests are varied in terms of their age, life experiences, level of education and political leanings. But they all have one critical thing in common: they are all white women.

They've gathered to experience radical honesty on racism — their role in upholding it, their conditioning to ignore it, and the essential part they can play in tearing down the systems that are killing Black and brown people in America every single day.

It's a dinner party facilitated by Race2Dinner: hosted in a white woman's home, with eight white guests, lasting two hours.

Regina Jackson and Saira Rao lead the conversation. Jackson was born in 1950 and remembers an America where "everything was in Black and white." Rao is the daughter of Indian immigrants and says she spent a large portion of her life aspiring to be white. In 2019, they founded Race2Dinner to help white women learn how they uphold white supremacy.

"The only thing that's going to change this is if we change the cultural DNA," Rao says in the documentary Deconstructing Karen.
"And the only way you can change the cultural DNA is through personal, human interactions. And we know that breaking bread with people is the best way to do that."

After explaining the one rule for the evening — "If you're going to cry, leave the table" — Rao asks the first question of the evening:

That has got to the be the stupidest thing I’ve heard in a while.
Great let’s pile on guilt over something that isn’t the current generations issue.

While the concept of breaking bread with others is great, the way it’s being done is simply a guilt trip and no doubt enriching the pair (kudos on the exploitation of capitalism ladies).
 

btrudy

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Well, I can't be certain, because similar to @Halifax Tar, I'm having a hard time following, but I believe some took my statement that, "I feel like the atmosphere of this forum is one where the people participating don't fully appreciate the perspective of the people who are the subject of the discussion", and high-key glowed it up into assertions like "only white people can be falsely accused of sexual misconduct". Just, kinda sus, you know?

Let me put it this way. When someone makes a comment on a general phenomenon, and an individual reacts as if that general comment is a personal attack... that's usually about as close to an admission of guilt as you ever get.

The web is full of tripe written by people claiming to know about the experience of white men, or just white people in general, and how their lives are full of "privilege". I don't play their game. I call bullsh!t on projecting their imagination and neuroses as fact and on the idea that "privilege" is not earned. Doesn't sound as special if it's just an "ordinary people vibe" they give off, I suppose.

Jesus dude, do you really need to be so obviously broadcasting the fact that you view "white men" as "ordinary people", and thus by extension everyone else ain't ordinary?

If people who looked like me started misbehaving en masse and as a consequence I found myself singled out, I'd either tolerate it or change a bit. I certainly wouldn't don a disreputable uniform by choice and complain when people react badly to it, or nominate ordinary useful human behaviours for being somehow disreputable (the universe of "white-acting" bullsh!t).

That would be the problem, wouldn't it? The entire history of this country, and a myriad of others, can easily be summed up as "white men misbehaving", but you're not viewing it like that because a system which systematically oppresses others while propping up the success of white men is in your view "ordinary", while anyone who fights against such a system is causing a disturbance.

That has got to the be the stupidest thing I’ve heard in a while.
Great let’s pile on guilt over something that isn’t the current generations issue.

While the concept of breaking bread with others is great, the way it’s being done is simply a guilt trip and no doubt enriching the pair (kudos on the exploitation of capitalism ladies).

My dude, this is still a current generations issue. Racism hasn't been "fixed". It still very much so exists; people are still dealing with both the combo punch of the ongoing legacy which traumatized and impoverished their ancestors, as well as the strident efforts of a hell of a lot of people to keep them down today.

Until we both make good for the damage that was done in the past and stop any ongoing further damage, the problem is still there.
 

Colin Parkinson

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"White men" Way to go dude, tossing a huge mix of people into the blender and ignoring their history and differences to make it easier for the blame game. Did the English and Canadians do some bad crap, yes we did and we are paying a sweet penny for it to this day. And for the 1.67 million Indigenous people here:

8-1-eng.png


Meanwhile we ignore these little factoids:
The Kwantlen branch of the Stó꞉lō relocated their main village to the proximity of the fort, partly to maintain primacy in trade with the company and partly for protection from competitors. The fort repelled an attack by the Euclataws of Quadra Island, helping to bring an end to slave raids on the lower Fraser by northern tribes. But, slave raiding continued for several decades after the establishment of Ft. Langley.

As for the Slave trade to the Americas (So we don't confuse it with the Arab Slave trade or the Barbary Pirate slave trading)
The growth of Dahomey coincided with the growth of the Atlantic slave trade, and it became known to Europeans as a major supplier of slaves.[2] As a highly militaristic kingdom constantly organised for warfare, it captured children, women, and men during wars and raids against neighboring societies, and sold them into the Atlantic slave trade in exchange for European goods such as rifles, gunpowder, fabrics, cowrie shells, tobacco, pipes, and alcohol.[5][6] Other remaining captives became slaves in Dahomey, where they worked on royal plantations and were routinely mass executed in large-scale human sacrifices during the festival celebrations known as the Annual Customs of Dahomey.[7][6] The Annual Customs of Dahomey involved significant collection and distribution of gifts and tribute, religious Vodun ceremonies, military parades, and discussions by dignitaries about the future for the kingdom.
In the 1840s, Dahomey began to face decline with British pressure to abolish the slave trade, which included the British Royal Navy imposing a naval blockade against the kingdom and enforcing anti-slavery patrols near its coast.[8] Dahomey was also weakened by military defeat from Abeokuta, a Yoruba city-state which was founded by the Oyo Empire refugees migrating southwards.[9] Dahomey later began experiencing territorial tensions with France which led to the First Franco-Dahomean War in 1890, resulting in French victory. The kingdom finally fell in 1894 when the last king, Béhanzin, was defeated by France in the Second Franco-Dahomean War, leading to the country being annexed into French West Africa as the colony of French Dahomey until it gained independence as the Republic of Dahomey in 1958.
 

Brad Sallows

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"Ordinary" just means "mostly follows rules and customs". Anyone can be ordinary. If most "white men" happen to be ordinary, other people are not excluded from being ordinary. Plenty of "not white men" people are ordinary. It's the people who elect not to be ordinary that set themselves apart. I can't help it if some people want to get behind movements that deprecate "acting white", as if going to school and holding down steady employment are cultural markers from which some people want to claim exclusions.

"People misbehaving" isn't unique to "white men"; the squabble over resources and power is universal. My take on our "system" is it's the best one so far for delivering people from the hardships humanity has faced for millennia. Doesn't means it's perfect. People who create disturbances without being able to demonstrate how an obvious improvement will result ought be opposed. When I see "X people" raging at "race/culture/gender traitors" who are simply "ordinary people", I know which side is wrong and which is right.
 

daftandbarmy

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"White men" Way to go dude, tossing a huge mix of people into the blender and ignoring their history and differences to make it easier for the blame game. Did the English and Canadians do some bad crap, yes we did and we are paying a sweet penny for it to this day. And for the 1.67 million Indigenous people here:

8-1-eng.png


Meanwhile we ignore these little factoids:
The Kwantlen branch of the Stó꞉lō relocated their main village to the proximity of the fort, partly to maintain primacy in trade with the company and partly for protection from competitors. The fort repelled an attack by the Euclataws of Quadra Island, helping to bring an end to slave raids on the lower Fraser by northern tribes. But, slave raiding continued for several decades after the establishment of Ft. Langley.

As for the Slave trade to the Americas (So we don't confuse it with the Arab Slave trade or the Barbary Pirate slave trading)
The growth of Dahomey coincided with the growth of the Atlantic slave trade, and it became known to Europeans as a major supplier of slaves.[2] As a highly militaristic kingdom constantly organised for warfare, it captured children, women, and men during wars and raids against neighboring societies, and sold them into the Atlantic slave trade in exchange for European goods such as rifles, gunpowder, fabrics, cowrie shells, tobacco, pipes, and alcohol.[5][6] Other remaining captives became slaves in Dahomey, where they worked on royal plantations and were routinely mass executed in large-scale human sacrifices during the festival celebrations known as the Annual Customs of Dahomey.[7][6] The Annual Customs of Dahomey involved significant collection and distribution of gifts and tribute, religious Vodun ceremonies, military parades, and discussions by dignitaries about the future for the kingdom.
In the 1840s, Dahomey began to face decline with British pressure to abolish the slave trade, which included the British Royal Navy imposing a naval blockade against the kingdom and enforcing anti-slavery patrols near its coast.[8] Dahomey was also weakened by military defeat from Abeokuta, a Yoruba city-state which was founded by the Oyo Empire refugees migrating southwards.[9] Dahomey later began experiencing territorial tensions with France which led to the First Franco-Dahomean War in 1890, resulting in French victory. The kingdom finally fell in 1894 when the last king, Béhanzin, was defeated by France in the Second Franco-Dahomean War, leading to the country being annexed into French West Africa as the colony of French Dahomey until it gained independence as the Republic of Dahomey in 1958.

And then there's stuff like this:




Samuel Hearne led a Hudson’s Bay Company expedition to the Coppermine River in 1771. (Image courtesy of Project Gutenberg)

NEWS FEB 6, 2021 – 9:30 AM EST

Slaughter at Bloody Fall​


On July 17, 1771, Hearne’s worst fears were realized when the party surprised a camp of Inuit sleeping in their tents near the mouth of the river. That morning Hearne’s Indian guides killed over 20 Inuit — men, women and children. Hearne left a heart-wrenching description of the slaughter:

“The shrieks and groans of the poor expiring wretches were truly dreadful; and my horror was much increased at seeing a young girl, seemingly about 18 years of age, killed so near me, that when the first spear was stuck into her side she fell down at my feet and twisted round my legs, so that it was with difficulty that I could disengage myself from her dying gasps. As two Indian men pursued this unfortunate victim, I solicited very hard for her life; but the murderers made no reply till they had stuck both their spears through her body and transfixed her to the ground. They then looked me sternly in the face, and began to ridicule me, by asking if I wanted an Esquimaux wife; and paid not the smallest regard to the shrieks and agony of the poor wretch, who was twining round their spears like an eel!”



 

SeaKingTacco

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Let me put it this way. When someone makes a comment on a general phenomenon, and an individual reacts as if that general comment is a personal attack... that's usually about as close to an admission of guilt as you ever get.



Jesus dude, do you really need to be so obviously broadcasting the fact that you view "white men" as "ordinary people", and thus by extension everyone else ain't ordinary?



That would be the problem, wouldn't it? The entire history of this country, and a myriad of others, can easily be summed up as "white men misbehaving", but you're not viewing it like that because a system which systematically oppresses others while propping up the success of white men is in your view "ordinary", while anyone who fights against such a system is causing a disturbance.



My dude, this is still a current generations issue. Racism hasn't been "fixed". It still very much so exists; people are still dealing with both the combo punch of the ongoing legacy which traumatized and impoverished their ancestors, as well as the strident efforts of a hell of a lot of people to keep them down today.

Until we both make good for the damage that was done in the past and stop any ongoing further damage, the problem is still there.
This post has to be, possibly, the grossest over simplification of human history, in the entire history of the internet.

So, BTrudy, when do we start rounding up the “misbehaving white men” and send them to the Camps?
 

Jarnhamar

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Until we both make good for the damage that was done in the past and stop any ongoing further damage, the problem is still there.
What is your plan for making good on the damage that was done in the past?
 

Good2Golf

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Who makes reparations to a white CIS-male sexually assaulted by a non-CIS male and non-CIS female?
 

Good2Golf

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I don't even understand the question.
With the broad brushes being painted around, the blame and responsibility for making amends seems most frequently, if not uniquely, on the privileged white (CIS either implied
Or explicitly ) male grouping.

My question…
Who makes reparations to a white CIS-male sexually assaulted by a non-CIS male and non-CIS female?
…aims to address the broad brush of privileged (which in itself, is a sweeping stereotype) white male, by posing a question that is intended to encourage thought based not on a pre-disposed judgement based on colour and gender, but acts of any person towards another. Perhaps the “what is done about bad things happening in a mode that doesn’t fit the broad brush’s assumed mode?” Is the outlier data point to be considered ‘the cost of improvement for the whole?’
 
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