Victoria is facing a public-safety crisis

[GK .Dundas]

The case always struck me as as less of a confrontation and more of an ambush.
To honest however I am only familiar with the case through the media and mention of on line.
But I still based on the information I have stand by that.

 

[Halifax Tar]

No, legal mistakes were made that necessitated appeal and a retrial. The judge has an important role to play in instructing a jury, and in this case the judge botched it the first time round- I think in part there had been relatively recent changes to the Crim Code regarding self defense, and this wasn't instructed correctly. That was appealed, which is how the system is supposed to work. The appeals court judge ordered a new trial. There was no 'they' 'wanting' anything in this who were in a position to impact it. Obviously crown argued their case in the appeal, and that's what supposed to happen.

The second trial was mistrialled after a day of evidence; they lost a juror who suffered a death in the family and had too few to go on. They proceeded with the third trial nearly immediately, there was minimal delay.

Ultimately a reasonable verdict was delivered. If acting to defend property you have to behave reasonably; you exit your house, can't sneak up on someone, surprise them, and then shoot them if they haven't presented the threat to you that justifies that. Any car thief is going to fuck off at the high port the second you shout at them. They're there to take stuff, not get in a fight. Khill was armed with a shotgun and very much able to yell at the thief from a position of cover with the shotgun ready to use if needed.

Why do we care so much about a miscreant and negative drain on society being put down ? If Jon Styles hadn't been trying to steal a truck that night he wouldn't have been put down. Its him and his actions that has left his family without his presence anymore. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Christie Blatchford: Jury wasn't told about criminal record of intruder killed by Ontario homeowner

The jury also didn't see a tearful statement Peter Khill gave to police after he killed Jon Styres. It would have shown how distraught Khill really was after…

nationalpost.com

Quote from article:

The second chunk of evidence the jurors didn’t have was so-called “bad character” evidence about the 29-year-old Styres.

It was composed of five things – Styres’ criminal record, which showed that in 2013 he’d been convicted for dangerous driving and had failed to stop for police; the fact that at the time of his death he’d been facing charges relating to his alleged theft of motor vehicles, possession of stolen vehicles and automotive equipment, and two charges of breach of probation, all of which dated to June of 2015; a charge, later withdrawn, of assaulting a corrections officer while Styres was at a Toronto jail; a photograph of Styres posing with a rifle, possibly a sawed off shotgun, and a picture of a knife, with what appears to be a piece of metal shaped to look like a bullet on the handle, that was found in Styres’ pocket when he died.

And that's just what he'd been caught for.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suspect this young man was destined to meet his end in one way or another involving his criminal lifestyle.

 

[brihard]

Why do we care so much about a miscreant and negative drain on society being put down ? If Jon Styles hadn't been trying to steal a truck that night he wouldn't have been put down. Its him and his actions that has left his family without his presence anymore. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

We don't have the death sentence here, not even by the state. Force to defend yourself, and even a reasonable amount of force to arrest someone to protect your property, are OK under our law. But you don't get to kill someone for trying to steal. While I'm not shedding any tears over the thief's demise, the rule of law absolutely has to keep a grip on this. In Canada, lives are valued over property. The taking of a life is the most severe thing that can be done to someone and is irrevocable. The cost of a mistake cannot be made whole.

We absolutely need stricter approaches to chronic offenders, both in bail reform and in sentencing. But that fix isn't meted out in the driveway with a shotgun.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Many people who do foolish things aren't habitual criminals. In particular, some young men and sub-adults are prone to occasional pointless hooliganism. While it's satisfying to imagine a guillotine dividing the interests of a housebreaker into two parts as he comes through a window, it would be a shame for it to happen to a temporarily irresponsible teenager. Etc.

 

[brihard]

While it's satisfying to imagine a guillotine dividing the interests of a housebreaker into two parts as he comes through a window

That's concerningly specific, lol. Somehow I doubt we'll see that in Jeld-Wen's product line.

 

[Halifax Tar]

We don't have the death sentence here, not even by the state. Force to defend yourself, and even a reasonable amount of force to arrest someone to protect your property, are OK under our law. But you don't get to kill someone for trying to steal. While I'm not shedding any tears over the thief's demise, the rule of law absolutely has to keep a grip on this. In Canada, lives are valued over property. The taking of a life is the most severe thing that can be done to someone and is irrevocable. The cost of a mistake cannot be made whole.

We absolutely need stricter approaches to chronic offenders, both in bail reform and in sentencing. But that fix isn't meted out in the driveway with a shotgun.

I am well aware we have no death penalty, thank you. Again, I don't agree, but I am aware.

What seems to be the undercurrent I am hearing is that the rule of law, including the law surrounding bail and its conditions, is more and more being used to the advantage of the criminal, all levels of criminal behavior.

Eventually, if things get bad enough, we will see more and more and more of this. Law and order are important parts of a civil society. But they need to be seen to protect the innocents and prosecute the guilty. I personally think that optic is being lost. Perhaps every once in a while civil society has to be reset or re born ?

Many people who do foolish things aren't habitual criminals. In particular, some young men and sub-adults are prone to occasional pointless hooliganism. While it's satisfying to imagine a guillotine dividing the interests of a housebreaker into two parts as he comes through a window, it would be a shame for it to happen to a temporarily irresponsible teenager. Etc.

Sure. And we can play what ifs all day. What's up for discussion in the Khill case is about a career criminal. But; if that irresponsible teenager puts themself in a position to be in danger, then again, win stupid prizes.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Why do we care so much about a miscreant and negative drain on society being put down ? If Jon Styles hadn't been trying to steal a truck that night he wouldn't have been put down. Its him and his actions that has left his family without his presence anymore. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Christie Blatchford: Jury wasn't told about criminal record of intruder killed by Ontario homeowner

The jury also didn't see a tearful statement Peter Khill gave to police after he killed Jon Styres. It would have shown how distraught Khill really was after…

nationalpost.com

Quote from article:


And that's just what he'd been caught for.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suspect this young man was destined to meet his end in one way or another involving his criminal lifestyle.

I certainly don't care about the miscreant. Guy had a long rap sheet and finally showed up at the wrong house.

I always wonder, given the thousands of missing people in Canada, many with questionable/colourful histories, how many ended up buried in the woods somewhere?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I certainly don't care about the miscreant. Guy had a long rap sheet and finally showed up at the wrong house.

I always wonder, given the thousands of missing people in Canada, many with questionable/colourful histories, how many ended up buried in the woods somewhere?

Probably more than one.

 

[Good2Golf]

I am well aware we have no death penalty, thank you. Again, I don't agree, but I am aware.

Well, except by an unjudicially imposed death penalty for non-compliance by an armed criminal against an innocent civilian in the commission of a crime on the citizen’s lawfully-held property…

 

[daftandbarmy]

Well, except by an unjudicially imposed death penalty for non-compliance by an armed criminal against an innocent civilian in the commission of a crime on the citizen’s lawfully-held property…

 

[Kat Stevens]

Absolutely. Lives over property. If I'm required to value the criminals life over my stuff, is he not equally required to value his life over my stuff? I find it farcical that some haywired nutsack can break into my home, with a weapon, and I'm required to give ground if possible. Fuck that shit.

 

[Booter]

If the rule of law wants to keep a grip on it- then the law needs to start treating criminals more harshly. People are frustrated. I believe that’s what HT is saying. He doesn’t care about the criminal because the criminal doesn’t care about the victim- and gets a dozen chances +

But brihard is correct that its not a solid plan- the Deck is stacked against folks trying to deal with it on their own.

 

[Halifax Tar]

If the rule of law wants to keep a grip on it- then the law needs to start treating criminals more harshly. People are frustrated. I believe that’s what HT is saying. He doesn’t care about the criminal because the criminal doesn’t care about the victim- and gets a dozen chances +

But brihard is correct that its not a solid plan- the Deck is stacked against folks trying to deal with it on their own.

Yup you pretty well nailed it.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

We absolutely need stricter approaches to chronic offenders, both in bail reform and in sentencing. But that fix isn't meted out in the driveway with a shotgun.

If the system does not improve, expect more of the later. That is the compact between State and Citizen. The Police and Courts need to be seen doing their job or else.

 

[dapaterson]

Police also need to be held to professional standards, and not have the Crown diminish the import when their actions cross the line.

The two OPP officers who, after being told there was likely a kidnapped infant in a vehicle, regardless opened fire and killed the suspect and the infant should be facing murder charges; instead, they got the Blue discount to manslaughter.

 

[Halifax Tar]

If the system does not improve, expect more of the later. That is the compact between State and Citizen. The Police and Courts need to be seen doing their job or else.

We're working the same field.

 

[mariomike]

Finally, in a third trial this fall, he was just convicted of manslaughter (acquitted of murder).

Also, a civil suit,

Court documents filed on Jan. 31, 2018 lay out the suit filed by Hamilton’s Hooper Law Offices on behalf of Lindsay Hill and her daughters, age two and four.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Canada does still have the death penalty, just a really slow one. 'Life in prison' is simply death by age. Unfortunately we as a society lack the sense to see this and the resolve to deal with the problem quicker once they are arrested and convicted. Hanging a few of these career criminals who do nothing but harm society and others will do wonders to reduce the amount of crime being committed in this country if only by taking them out of the equation.

 

[lenaitch]

Police also need to be held to professional standards, and not have the Crown diminish the import when their actions cross the line.

The two OPP officers who, after being told there was likely a kidnapped infant in a vehicle, regardless opened fire and killed the suspect and the infant should be facing murder charges; instead, they got the Blue discount to manslaughter.

I didn't realize the evidence was publicly available.

When it goes to trial, the Crown's case will likely be two-part; was the use of deadly force justified, and were they negligent in its deployment.

Regardless, my read of the publicly available information says that the actions do not fit the definition of murder.

******

The big problem I have with capital punishment is the system that determines it is not infallible. There are numerous cases where the system knew, 'beyond a reasonable doubt' that the offender was guilty, only to determine later that they were not. If the argued answer is to create a better system, good luck with that. It is a human-created system and we are not infallible. It's a little late to say oopsie.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The big problem I have with capital punishment is the system that determines it is not infallible. There are numerous cases where the system knew, 'beyond a reasonable doubt' that the offender was guilty, only to determine later that they were not. If the argued answer is to create a better system, good luck with that. It is a human-created system and we are not infallible. It's a little late to say oopsie.

It should be a tool in the box and only rolled out on the rarest of occasions. Think Paul Bernardo level evil.