Voluntary release- payback of obligatory service

[Navy_Pete]

Quick admin question, can anyone confirm if the calculation on obligatory service payback for a PGT includes the salary? Read the DAOD and associate QR&O, and pretty sure the answer is yes, but figured I'd ask for confirmation.

Understand the total will be pro-rated if I've completed a portion of the oblig service period, but just trying to get an idea of how much that might be. With no salary included it's pretty minimal.

Looks like it excludes some move costs and a few other items but the salary is about 20 times the tuition.

 

[dapaterson]

Yes, salary is included. Remember that your leave (including accrued and accumulated) will count towards the time you have to serve, reducing your liability.

 

[MJP]

Quick admin question, can anyone confirm if the calculation on obligatory service payback for a PGT includes the salary? Read the DAOD and associate QR&O, and pretty sure the answer is yes, but figured I'd ask for confirmation.

Understand the total will be pro-rated if I've completed a portion of the oblig service period, but just trying to get an idea of how much that might be. With no salary included it's pretty minimal.

Looks like it excludes some move costs and a few other items but the salary is about 20 times the tuition.

Yes, it does get included.

QR&O 15.07

(3) Where under paragraph (2) all or a portion of the cost incurred by the public is to be reimbursed, the amount of that reimbursement shall be:

1. the total cost incurred by the public in providing the course, if the release occurs within 12 months of the commencement of the required minimum period of service; or
2. that part of the cost incurred by the public that is the equivalent in ratio of the number of months still to be served (part of a month being reckoned as a full month), to the total number of months of the minimum period of service, if the release occurs within that required minimum period of service but more than 12 months after commencement of that period.

(4) The cost incurred by the public on which reimbursement shall be based shall be:

1. the amount paid by the Crown either directly to the institution providing the instruction or by reimbursement of the officer or non-commissioned member for fees or any other costs arising out of or attributable to his attendance under instruction, but in the case of an officer attending a Canadian Military College the amount shall be the fees and expenses as prescribed in the Queen's Regulations and Orders for the Canadian Military Colleges; and
2. except for any period during which the member performed normal service duties, pay and allowances including the rate of subsistence allowance for his rank and status, whether in issue or not, applicable from time to time in the period for which he attended the course, but not including
   1. transportation and travelling expenses provided to send him and his dependents, furniture and effects to or from the course,
   2. any assisted leave transportation benefits extended to him, or
   3. income tax deductions applicable to that period.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Thanks, that's what I assumed, but always good to ask someone else to confirm (especially when already going cross eyed from reading pubs/drawings).

 

[MJP]

Thanks, that's what I assumed, but always good to ask someone else to confirm (especially when already going cross eyed from reading pubs/drawings).

At least you aren't MOTP/DOTP. I had a few of those out West and the payback was quite substantial even for a doctor.

 

[stoker dave]

As an aside, I once sent a note to a career manager carefully documenting my calculation for obligatory service. Fully referenced with dates, etc.

The career manager came back and said 'no, the answer is X' with X being about 4 months longer than I had calculated. The CM provided no justification, no calculation and was the final word with no discussion or debate.

So just be cautious: what you calculate may not be the same as what someone else decrees.

 

[MJP]

As an aside, I once sent a note to a career manager carefully documenting my calculation for obligatory service. Fully referenced with dates, etc.

The career manager came back and said 'no, the answer is X' with X being about 4 months longer than I had calculated. The CM provided no justification, no calculation and was the final word with no discussion or debate.

So just be cautious: what you calculate may not be the same as what someone else decrees.

Meh, when it is presented to the member there is an opportunity to make adjustments as needed. It has been a hot year or so so my memory is getting hazier but it may come through the CM but they don't make the calculations it is another org. The CM may feed some info but they don't control the process. Have seen more than a few adjusted to account for errors.

 

[Navy_Pete]

In my particular case the calc gets done by somone over at DMCPG 5, which is the same org that oversees the PG selection and PGT process.

Bunch of folks on leave so just trying to inform myself to get a ballpark of what to expect. With COVID impacts and some part time PGT in there it's a bit more complicated than normal, so expect will be some bartering over the time being used for the start/end dates (as it doesn't line up with posting dates).

Looking at second career options, so just wondering if it's a 6 month plan, or if I do the full pay back over another few years. I don't feel like taking out a loan though to pay back $100k+ but also can't complain about continuing to be employed.

Thanks for the help @MJP; appreciate it.

 

[jaysfan17]

Hello everyone, I figured I'd post my conundrum in this thread rather than create a new one.

I can't for the life of me get a quote for how much obligatory service that I owe. Currently, I am just about to complete the first year of obligatory service (total five). I graduated RMC through ROTP and while at RMC I was paid as a Private (PI 3). If I payback the next four years I estimate that being 100k.

What I have done so far to find out the quote

• Asked my orderly room to contact Ottawa for a quote, their response was this: "if we ask Ottawa for a quote they will reply 'we don't do that because we have better things to do'".
• Contacted release section which referred me to the transition center.
• Transition center suggested to contact the CM.
• Asked my CoC to reach out to the CM. Instead they gave me the DAOD for obligatory service.

Is the CM the correct person who can give me the value of what I have left to payback? If so, should I contact them myself and risk pissing off my CoC?

 

[dapaterson]

The CM should have the record of what your oblig service is.

Ask for the breakdown, not just the total because, believe it or not, sometimes their data is off.


On a related topic, are there things that might convince you to stay in the CAF?

 

[jaysfan17]

The CM should have the record of what your oblig service is.

Ask for the breakdown, not just the total because, believe it or not, sometimes their data is off.

I will keep that in mind about the breakdown because that is a good point.

On a related topic, are there things that might convince you to stay in the CAF?

Depending on how much I have to pay back is a factor in how long I will stay in for. I would not want to pay back money I may not have. Other than that, and to answer your question, there is nothing realistically possible that would convince me to stay longer than I need to.

I appreciate the response dapaterson, it is very helpful.

 

[MJP]

Hello everyone, I figured I'd post my conundrum in this thread rather than create a new one.

I can't for the life of me get a quote for how much obligatory service that I owe. Currently, I am just about to complete the first year of obligatory service (total five). I graduated RMC through ROTP and while at RMC I was paid as a Private (PI 3). If I payback the next four years I estimate that being 100k.

What I have done so far to find out the quote

• Asked my orderly room to contact Ottawa for a quote, their response was this: "if we ask Ottawa for a quote they will reply 'we don't do that because we have better things to do'".
• Contacted release section which referred me to the transition center.
• Transition center suggested to contact the CM.
• Asked my CoC to reach out to the CM. Instead they gave me the DAOD for obligatory service.

Is the CM the correct person who can give me the value of what I have left to payback? If so, should I contact them myself and risk pissing off my CoC?

CDA SEM (+SEM Finance) holds the data on the costs for most subsidization education programmes so they ultimately would provide the data but it should be through DGMC (your CM) as they will process your release. I will admit that finding a process of any sort is painful if you are already out of subsidized education. I also suspect that you will encounter resistance in anyone doing the calculations without an actual release in action.

CDAO 3 at DFC - CDAO Revenue and Receivables creates the account payable in the system (or at least they did) but they get fed all the info so don't do any calculations

It is pretty easy to calculate your costs (RMC costs are in CFAO or QROs) and if you search on sharepoint for Repayment Schedule Request you can see some examples sent to CDAO 3 to guide you.