Walts, posers & wannabes (merged)

[x_para76]

One of the biggest atrocities committed here is that this twat has used resources that could've gone to vet's that truly need them. It's too bad Hamilton Police Service didn't vet this oxygen thief before donating $5000 towards getting him a service dog.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

One of the biggest atrocities committed here is that this twat has used resources that could've gone to vet's that truly need them. It's too bad Hamilton Police Service didn't vet this oxygen thief before donating $5000 towards getting him a service dog.

I'm waiting for my dog. Normal wait is 24 months. 16 months so far. Checked the other day, they will have ten dogs ready for this fall. Also found out I'm #12 on the list. Barring anything unforeseen, I'll be going for training in the late spring 2018. Approx 32 months after the screening process. Currently, they value their dogs at $30,000. Not all providers of 'Service' dogs follow any certification rules as provinces are now starting to put regulations in place that'll have to be adhered to in order to wear the Service dog vest. Right now there's people taking rescue dogs, giving them basic obedience training and putting a vest on them.

This guy did not get my dog, but he did get someone else's. Maybe that person is OK with waiting, maybe that person became one of our fallen because he didn't get to comfort and ground them. Maybe it should have gone to a kid.

I normally don't get too wrapped around the axle about posers. They steal nothing from me. If the guy is just looking for a group and some free beer? Meh, life's too short. If I encounter one, I'll confront them and sort them out. I'll do it in a normal conversational tone. If I see them again, I have lot's of cop buddies, that served, that'll be on the way while I keep him engaged.

In this case though? He could be responsible for a service persons death. If ever the courts decided on a show trial to prove a point, this should be the one. Full restitutions is only one thing that should be in the penalty. Then civil lawsuits should be launch.

Of course, if he turns out to be clinically bonkers, everything I spent typing on a tablet is moot. :dunno:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Interesting.

No. It's not 'interesting', it's fucking infuriating and heads should be rolling. Civilian and military.

We're our own worst enemy. :brickwall:

Sorry for the highjack guys. Back to walting.

 

[Pieman]

  Service members and veterans are the most vicious group out there against those with PTSD.

That's extremely disheartening to hear. Do you mean that they will simply dismiss someone as being a 'faker'? (For whatever BS reason they can come up with)

 

[ueo]

Yes, a thousand times yes. :crybaby:

 

[Jarnhamar]

That's extremely disheartening to hear. Do you mean that they will simply dismiss someone as being a 'faker'? (For whatever BS reason they can come up with)

I can't speak for what RG meant but I know when it comes to me I'm guilty of dismissing some people as fakers or casting a lot of doubt on their stories.
While I'm not proud of it, when I hear someone claiming PTSD because they sat in an air conditioned office for 6 months and heard a few rocket attacks or because they drove by a random burnt out LAV and got really upset I think 'fuck, seriously?'. Obviously I have no right to judge anyone else and I'm sure I'm a part of the proverbial problem.

On the other hand (and I'm not just trying to defend my short comings here)  I think simply taking everyone's story at face value and being afraid to give stories a bit of scrutiny CAN lead to bad shit too. Look at Art Leonard's story.  He's been ripping off people for years, including ripping off the police and taking an actual injured members freaking service dog. One quick read of his bullshit story should set off 1000 alarm bells. Hell we weren't fighting in Kandahar in 2003, how did everyone miss that? Incredible.  Is questioning someones claims worth the damage it can cause to members actually suffering? Does ignoring false claims like Art Leonards end up hurting even more people? Like that dog that should have went to someone else? I don't know.


[One unfortunate behavior from actual vets I've noticed is that some seem to feel acknowledging someone else's injuries (OSI, PTSD) somehow detracts from their own injuries and it becomes a dick measuring contest of who is more injured. Or, they get off on stressing/trolling/upsetting each other for reasons I don't understand. That's probably a discussion for a different thread though.]

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I can't speak for what RG meant but I know when it comes to me I'm guilty of dismissing some people as fakers or casting a lot of doubt on their stories.
While I'm not proud of it, when I hear someone claiming PTSD because they sat in an air conditioned office for 6 months and heard a few rocket attacks or because they drove by a random burnt out LAV and got really upset I think 'fuck, seriously?'. Obviously I have no right to judge anyone else and I'm sure I'm a part of the proverbial problem.

Or you are like some others, myself included, who can't understand how someone can get PTSD because they drove by a random burnt out LAV, or because of *insert reason that seems extremely minor* here.  You're not the only one who does it. 

 

[Jed]

Or you are like some others, myself included, who can't understand how someone can get PTSD because they drove by a random burnt out LAV, or because of *insert reason that seems extremely minor* here.  You're not the only one who does it.

And some people just do not want to pop the top off a 'can of worms' that may spiral out of control. Hence why so many people from the big wars like WW II and Korea kept their mouths shut and stuffed shit so far down a miner couldn't dig it out.

I know that the experts say you should open up but to me that has always been a coin toss on the end results. At least as to how I have observed outcomes from many different individuals of all walks of life who have walked through some sort of mental hell and are still here to tell the story...  If they choose too.

 

[FJAG]

Or you are like some others, myself included, who can't understand how someone can get PTSD because they drove by a random burnt out LAV, or because of *insert reason that seems extremely minor* here.  You're not the only one who does it.

Just consider how many of the public service is off on "stress" leave at any given time. It's a universal issue that is hitting our government work force and as most here say, it creates a problem in distinguishing those who have a genuine condition caused by overwhelming external factors from those who are just psychologically weak by nature and have coping problems in the face of minor or moderate situations that most of us can handle.

:cheers:

 

[George Wallace]

......... from those who are just psychologically weak by nature and have coping problems in the face of minor or moderate situations that most of us can handle.

That, I think, is a problem with a vast majority of our society today.  They are a lot "Softer" than members of society five decades ago.  We seem to see someone "offended" with something at every turn.  Where before people had experiences that would "harden" them while they were growing up, today we find that parents are overly protective of their children that children are suffering from everything from allergies to being unable to cope or interact with other humans.  Some are desensitized by videos and video games and can not handle "reality".  I can only see this getting worse.  And....We do make fun of these people as well.

I know that the experts say you should open up but to me that has always been a coin toss on the end results. At least as to how I have observed outcomes from many different individuals of all walks of life who have walked through some sort of mental hell and are still here to tell the story...  If they choose too.

I have used the argument that this is why Messes were created in the first place, as a place for the troops to decompress among their peers, within the Regimental/Unit family.  And later as people left the Service, why the Legions were formed.  Those places where people could talk through some of their problems with persons who had similar experiences.

[edit]

If we go with the line of thought that the Legions and other Associations were created with this in mind, and then follow through with the history of those organizations seeing a drop in their memberships and then allowing civilians to become members; then perhaps we can see where some of these Walts and Posers came from.......Non-Veterans listening to conversations of Veterans and dreaming of what they could have been......Some actually going so far as to play "Mr. Dressup".

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Thank you RG, and I'm sorry to hear about the trials and tribulations you're going through but thanks for talking about it.

Tanks! Jarn. It's appreciated. :cheers:

It's a universal issue that is hitting our government work force and as most here say, it creates a problem in distinguishing those who have a genuine condition caused by overwhelming external factors from those who are just psychologically weak by nature and have coping problems in the face of minor or moderate situations that most of us can handle.

:cheers:

Annnnnddddd there's our problem. Who gets to decide what the threshold is. Who gets to decide what level of trauma is the cut off. Great big tough guys that dismiss someone "He hasn't got PTSD, I've seen worse shit that that, fucking poser!"? It's not that they don't understand, it's because they are bullies. Confront an injured person like that and you run into all kinds of problems. Retreat from social contact, depression, anxiety, addictions and suicide are some.

So from now on, let's just leave that shit behind and let the professionals decide what's what. I'm sure you don't appreciate it when a non legal type starts giving you advice on how to do your job and I don't think the health professionals that deal with this day in and out appreciate lay people diagnosing someone else while having a bitch session at the local bar.

We've been through all this before at milnet. There's likely more than one thread. Everything posted by me is my opinion and I'm not going to defend, or condemn anyone for what they think about the subject. However, I'll bow out, unless someone gets really stupid. I've said my piece and feel that I can't add anymore than what I've said. Talking about it and defending it from different directions, is not the same thing and not in my cards right now.

Cheers,
rg

 

[mariomike]

Just consider how many of the public service is off on "stress" leave at any given time.

Car Count goes down. Response Time goes up. When did you feel better served, taxpayers, then or now?

 

[George Wallace]

Find a RECIPIENT of a MEDAL

http://www.gg.ca/honours.aspx?lan=eng

 

[Lightguns]

Find a RECIPIENT of a MEDAL

http://www.gg.ca/honours.aspx?lan=eng

Be careful using that.  There is ton of errors.  Many military have their rank mixed in with their first name.  Some some are name first, some are rank first. My last name is spelled differently in my three entries and my home town is once where I was born and twice where I was posted.

 

[George Wallace]

Very good points, and ones I noticed right away when I saw the limited options for the SEARCH.

The likelihood of error or not finding the information you are looking for are relatively HIGH.

Unfortunately, the Library and Archives of Canada only has a SEARCH available for the persons between 1812 to 1969.  Its' options are only slightly better in finding answers, as your points still apply (different spelling of names, short forms of names, typos of any type, etc.)

Search: Military Medals, Honours and Awards, 1812-1969

 

[NavyShooter]

Ah, that's a fascinating link.

Sent off to my father for some family history research!

NS

 

[medicineman]

Find a RECIPIENT of a MEDAL

http://www.gg.ca/honours.aspx?lan=eng

Looked myself up...not in there.  However, I'm in the Canadian Gazette for my Order of St John - I've Googled that. 

The site is limited in other ways though too, as campaign/UN/OSM's/CD's etc aren't listed either, so unless you have access to unit nominal rolls/DB's for a given deployment, pretty hard to check.

MM

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It shows the SSM being created in 1984 and the CPSM as created in 1988. Pretty sure that should be '94 and '98 respectively.

How can one government web site be so rife with errors? Should really screw up the posers though.

 

[Rifleman62]

That site does not correlate the info e.g. You may have to search specifically for the M.M.M., Commemorative medal, etc. Just searching a name does not bring up everything.

 

[Blackadder1916]

It shows the SSM being created in 1984 and the CPSM as created in 1988. Pretty sure that should be '94 and '98 respectively.

How can one government web site be so rife with errors? Should really screw up the posers though.

The GG's webpage on Special Service Medals is 100%* correct with dates.  The SSM was originally created to recognize activities that occurred beginning in 1984 (the first medals were actually issued a few years later), however it was in the 90s that the majority were issued after the NATO bar was instituted (1992?) and then the HUMANITAS bar (1995?).  As for the CPSM, if you read closely, what it actually says is "The prestigious Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to all United Nations Peacekeepers in 1988".  That was one of the justifications used for introducing the legislation for that medal because I already received a medal.


*Edited to correct the degree of correctness.  I realized that the SSM had not been in place in 1984 when I remembered that one of the service papers that I did at Staff School was a treatise on recognition of "special service" by means of a medal similar to the SSM.  And no, I don't think my scribbling had any place in the evolution of that medal.

*And re-edited back to original degree of correctness.  Regardless of what I remembered, I proved my memory wrong - the SSM was instituted by letters patent in 1984, the first clasps did not come about until later.