Want to release but course loaded

[mariomike]

Cases such as this, tend to lead to a future application to the CAF.      :facepalm:

If they are not fit for service, and re-apply, and we take them back, shame on us.

Milpoints to both of you. 

 

[Murphy709]

Let`s not paint everyone with the same brush, though.

The poster is saying things that tell me he/she should be going to the next Sick Parade possible to talk to CF H Svcs professionals.  You've got to consider things about 'continuing on with trg' when a student's mental state is at question.  Is the candidate doing driver training (AFVs on highways during roadmoves, example)?  Live range practices?  Etc.  It can't be a cooker cutter decision.

I don't like how the CAF uses the "immediate family member" stuff as a filter.  Does the way someone might react to a death or serious injury link directly to it?  Nope.

My  :2c: is the member should report to sick parade or speak to the Duty MO if they can't wait until Monday.  Regardless of what we think, there is a duty to look after the mbr's welfare.

I have spoken with 3 Padres, mental health people and told them how I was feeling they put me on 4 days excused duty. Had my PRB today and the committee recommends I stay for training. I just want to get the fuck out of here before I hurt myself I'm so upset about this whole mess. I just hate everything here. No one I talk to has gotten me any further ahead.

 

[mariomike]

I have spoken with 3 Padres, mental health people and told them how I was feeling they put me on 4 days excused duty. Had my PRB today and the committee recommends I stay for training. I just want to get the fuck out of here before I hurt myself I'm so upset about this whole mess. I just hate everything here. No one I talk to has gotten me any further ahead.

Did you mention that to the "mental health people" you spoke to?

 

[Murphy709]

Did you mention that to the "mental health people" you spoke to?

yes I have. I've tried every possible thing to get me out of here.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Alright. I am confused and I don't get it.

This person claims to be a reservist.

A reservist cannot under any circumstances, other than an actual activation of the reserves by order of the Governor General or a duly signed class "C" contract, be forced to work or stay in the CF even one more day than  from the one he/she asks for release. Period. End of statement That is it.

ANY reservist on a course that indicates he/she wishes to release is absolutely and without any other delay or attempt at changing his/her mind, to bet R.T.U'd immediately. And his own unit is to process the release without any delays, unless there are disciplinary aspects to this we are not aware of.

Nothing else will do as reservists have no set duration of service and serve as volunteers at their own will.

I don't know if this person is telling us the truth, but if he/she is, then there is very serious potential for redress action against his chain of command at the training base ... or at his home unit if it is aware of the situation and not doing anything.

That's it and that's all. You cannot keep reservists against their will. All of this talk of death, near death, potential death in the family is irrelevant: Reservist said I want t quit the CF - That's it. Game over.

Murphy709: If what you indicate in these forum is true, then write on a piece of paper/memo form addressed to your course OC that you have indicated your wish to quit the CF to your course instructor on - indicate date  - but they refuse and he/she (the OC) refuses to process you back to your unit to process the release and that if he/she (the OC) does not take immediate corrective action in the next 24 hours, you will have no choice but file a complaint with the MP's for unlawful confinement.
   

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Or if you wanted, you could file a grievance.  http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-01/ch-07.page

If that was a course of action you would consider, you could file a Notice on Intent to grieve, and IAW the QR & Os, make an oral complaint to your CO before submitting a grievance.

7.04 - ORAL COMPLAINT

The right to grieve does not preclude an officer or non-commissioned member from making an oral complaint to their commanding officer before submitting a grievance.

 

[Murphy709]

Alright. I am confused and I don't get it.

This person claims to be a reservist.
Everything said here is true and is as well in my pers file that was used at my PRB. During the PRB some major read something out of the DAODs or whatever and said that my withdrawal does not have to be accepted. The doctor just put me on two weeks sick leave so he thinks they will have to RTU me for missing so much trg. I understand that reservists are voluntary workers. But it really doesn't seem like it up here. I was on excused duty the past 4 days and the staff still had me with the course over those days doing activities such as nav and etc. I would raise my right hand in a courtroom that everything here is true.
A reservist cannot under any circumstances, other than an actual activation of the reserves by order of the Governor General or a duly signed class "C" contract, be forced to work or stay in the CF even one more day than  from the one he/she asks for release. Period. End of statement That is it.

ANY reservist on a course that indicates he/she wishes to release is absolutely and without any other delay or attempt at changing his/her mind, to bet R.T.U'd immediately. And his own unit is to process the release without any delays, unless there are disciplinary aspects to this we are not aware of.

Nothing else will do as reservists have no set duration of service and serve as volunteers at their own will.

I don't know if this person is telling us the truth, but if he/she is, then there is very serious potential for redress action against his chain of command at the training base ... or at his home unit if it is aware of the situation and not doing anything.

That's it and that's all. You cannot keep reservists against their will. All of this talk of death, near death, potential death in the family is irrelevant: Reservist said I want t quit the CF - That's it. Game over.

Murphy709: If what you indicate in these forum is true, then write on a piece of paper/memo form addressed to your course OC that you have indicated your wish to quit the CF to your course instructor on - indicate date  - but they refuse and he/she (the OC) refuses to process you back to your unit to process the release and that if he/she (the OC) does not take immediate corrective action in the next 24 hours, you will have no choice but file a complaint with the MP's for unlawful confinement.
 

Everything said here is true and is as well in my pers file that was used at my PRB. During the PRB some major read something out of the DAODs or whatever and said that my withdrawal does not have to be accepted. The doctor just put me on two weeks sick leave so he thinks they will have to RTU me for missing so much trg. I understand that reservists are voluntary workers. But it really doesn't seem like it up here. I was on excused duty the past 4 days and the staff still had me with the course over those days doing activities such as nav and etc. I would raise my right hand in a courtroom that everything here is true. The medical officer said he is sorry about my case as he thinks it is ridiculous as well.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The MO put you on excused duties and the course staff still made you conduct trg as if that wasn't the case?

Where exactly are you?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I agree with EITS here: Where are you?

This still doesn't make sense to me.

The PRB and the DAOD giving authority to not accept your withdrawal: That's for either a failure to perform during the course or in case you request to voluntarily drop out of  the course. Not for releasing from the CF.

Is your unit aware of your situation? If not contact them immediately.

But listen carefully here: Vocabulary is important. You must state clearly and unequivocally that you are indicating (not "requesting") to them that you are immediately releasing from the CF and are requesting immediate RTU to proceed with the said release. Put it in writing, send copy to your unit, have a witness you trust when handing it over to your OC.

Be aware, however, there is no turning back. Once at your home unit, you will release.

You should have taken my original advice, and that of Jarnhamar and not let your unit talk you into going to the course. 

 

[Murphy709]

The MO put you on excused duties and the course staff still made you conduct trg as if that wasn't the case?

Where exactly are you?

they didn't have me handle weapons, but on the weekend when it was a little more relaxed they made me participate in the nav classes as well as practical outside. I am at CFB gagetown.

 

[Murphy709]

Situation is under control. Thanks for the help folks. Means a lot.

 

[Murphy709]

Another quick question. I'm on course but have been given 14 days sick leave. What are the chances that I will be sent home before the leave is over?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I would guess likely none.  You'll most likely need to complete your 14 days sick leave.

Really weird that your course staff forced you to violate the medical systems  directions and make you do training while on excused duties.

So why did you go away on course even though you knew you didn't want to be in the army anymore and multiple people told you not to?

As well,  like I cautioned about the death in the non-immediate family,  if you're telling your  staff you're going  to hurt yourself if they don't let you quit you may be opening yourself up for other administrative issues.
Such as being sent on psychiatric evaluation,  put on suicide watch where someone doesn't leave your side or possibly even admitted to the hospital under the mental health act. 

"I'm going to hurt myself" isn't always the free ticket I think some people think it is.

 

[Murphy709]

You are right. It's not a free ticket and I didn't view it as such. I feel trapped here and want out. Sorry for feeling this way. But although, my address while on leave on the leave form is my home address.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

So, you were given 14 days sick leave and the leave pass the course gave you has your home address as the place you're going to spend it?

If that's the case, get out of there and go home. Ensure that your Crse WO and OC are aware you're leaving. A quick memo will do it. Hand deliver it and get their signatures on your copy.

Go home, go to your unit and tell them to get your release stuff going and you'll be in to sign off and return kit at the end of the 14 days.

Once you're home and have established contact with your unit, don't listen to anything you may receive from the course staff. You're not their concern anymore. If they do contact you, be polite and request any queries are to go through your unit first and, if required, they will action things and contact you.

Have your unit contact the course and tell them you will not be returning and are in the midst of releasing.

Good luck to you.

 

[Murphy709]

So, you were given 14 days sick leave and the leave pass the course gave you has your home address as the place you're going to spend it?

If that's the case, get out of there and go home. Ensure that your Crse WO and OC are aware you're leaving. A quick memo will do it. Hand deliver it and get their signatures on your copy.

Go home, go to your unit and tell them to get your release stuff going and you'll be in to sign off and return kit at the end of the 14 days.

Once you're home and have established contact with your unit, don't listen to anything you may receive from the course staff. You're not their concern anymore. If they do contact you, be polite and request any queries are to go through your unit first and, if required, they will action things and contact you.

Have your unit contact the course and tell them you will not be returning and are in the midst of releasing.

Good luck to you.

the doctor gave me the chit with sick leave as well the leave pass just waiting to get it signed off on. But that sounds like a prime idea to myself. Thanks brother. Can the course deny my leave pass to go home although the med officer gave it to me?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If the Med Officer stipulated you are to do it at home, for medical reasons, then the course has no say. If they don't action it or slow action it, let the Doc know they are countermanding his orders.

Do you have your own car there or do you need the military to provide transport home?

 

[Murphy709]

If the Med Officer stipulated you are to do it at home, for medical reasons, then the course has no say. If they don't action it or slow action it, let the Doc know they are countermanding his orders.

Do you have your own car there or do you need the military to provide transport home?

unfortunately they have to book me a flight back home.

 

[PuckChaser]

Can the course deny my leave pass to go home although the med officer gave it to me?

No. Sick leave is only granted by a MO, or revoked by that MO. As long as you're not "Excused duties" and are on "Sick Leave", the course should be booking a flight home now.

 

[ballz]

No. Sick leave is only granted by a MO, or revoked by that MO.

Which is why 42 Health Services (here in Gagetown) usually has the leave pass signed off by the MO and a copy faxed over to the member's unit... a good practice... strange they didn't follow it in this one specific circumstance?

  :trainwreck: