Wasting my life?

[Ex Ranger Instructor]

True, and note that I said that this disrespect occurs "whether deservedly or undeservedly". There are some officers who are quite good at their jobs, regardless of age or experience. If I didn‘t make it clear enough in my post that I believe that to be the case, then I apologize. However, many are not. It is my view that many young reserve officers are put into positions for which they are vastly underqualified. I think that this causes problems not only for the unit as a whole, but for the mbr in question as well. It has been the trend within the last few years in my unit, not to recruit new officers directly, but instead to CFR (I couldn‘t honestly tell you whether this has been a unit policy, or if it has just worked out that way). I that CFR and/or recruiting officers who are perhaps a bit older and wiser than the average university student is the best policy, particularly for the reserves. I base that statement in large part upon the reserve trg capability issue which I described above.

Also, whether an attitude of disrespect for young officers is damaging or not, I think that you‘d have to admit that it is prevalent. What I‘m suggesting is that this could perhaps be avoided if such inexperienced pers were not selected to become direct entry reserve officers in the first place. In my own case, as I stated, I‘m very glad that I didn‘t join as an officer. I would have been an idiot.

 

[Michael OLeary]

There is one significant hazard with the theory that officers should first spend time in the ranks. Let me pose a set of questions for you to consider (I offer them more in a rhetorical sense than as a challenge to respond):

Say you recruit and train six individuals to the rank of MCpl who all express an interest in accepting an officer‘s bitllet if offered. The unit has openings for three new officers. Which ones do you take? The three best leaders? What does this then do to the NCO cadre of the unit if you consistently take the best young NCOs to the officers‘ mess? What if there is only room for three of the six on primary leadership training, do the course canacies go to the identified officer candidates, and no new MCpls hit the parade square that year?

It is best if the unit dedicates the effort to recruit and train young officers to be officers, and applies the available training time and courses for the development of NCOs for that purpose. Trained NCOs who are good at the job may actually be too valuable to the unit to be taken away to be commissioned. Perhaps even more so for the Reserves than the Regular Force, leadership course vacancies are too valuable to be consistently expended on people who will get that same training again.

This is not to say that unit‘s should not consider commissioning promising NCOs who have the potential and interest. But as a primary source it‘s just not necessarily a healthy working plan for the unit overall.

Recruiting and training inexperienced people is what we do, for the ranks, and for officers. It is our collective responsibility to ensure that both groups get the respect and training (both formal and by example within the unit) they need to help them develop into productive unit members.

 

[Ex Ranger Instructor]

I agree with your point regarding the detrimental impact CFR can have on the junior leadership within a unit. It is potentially problematic. Within my unit, in the past year, we have had our best WO CFR, thereby "losing" him, and we now have a very good MCpl (second only to myself within the unit ) in the process of getting his commission. However, I would suggest that it is a larger problem for a unit to have completely inexperienced (read: incompetent) officers doing things like producing op orders, planning exercises, etc than it is for a unit to have completely inexperienced master corporals. A bad officer can bring down the whole unit quite quickly; a bad jack usually only ruins his own det or section. Hence my statement that perhaps older, wiser individuals might be recruited for officer positions, rather than the typical 18 year old undergraduate student.

I suppose that what I take issue with is the fact that in the reserves (or in the units that I have been with at least) the vast majority of the junior ranks personnel are students. Now I agree that an officer should be educated, but it seems a silly thing to base a commission on education alone when the whole unit is more or less on an even playing field in that respect. What makes one of them better than another? Only experience.

Please remember that when I made my initial post, I did so in response to a 15 year old expressing interest in becoming an officer. Now, I don‘t mean to discourage the young guy, maybe he will be an officer one day, and a good one at that. I‘m just a little tired of explaining to indignant teenagers that they probably won‘t get and might not even deserve a commission just because they are in college. Thankfully, my unit has good, experienced officers, so there‘s no drastic need to commission such pers. However, not all units are so lucky. Last summer, I was in a position to see some Officer trg that was taking place. That trg seems to me to have done little to transform an young officer candidate/college student into an individual more qualified than the young privates/college students who were there to take their apprentice trades trg. Problematic or no, I think that the reserves benefit from any system that encourages the commissioning of pers who will make good officers right away, rather than having to nursemaid candidates through a few years of not being able to find thier *** with both hands, a flashlight, and a set of written directions.

 

[Yes Man]

Just a question, because I am one of those 19 year olds looking to become an officer. What do you think produces a better officer over all.

1) Someone who has started out as an officer young, and has been in the position for years.

or

2) Someone who started in the ranks and only has been an officer for a short time.

Which one of these two cases would most likely be a better officer?

I realize that a MCpl who has been in the army for 5+ years would probably make a better officer than a new recruit, but would you think a person who has been an officer for 5 years would be better at their job than a MCpl? because if thats the case would it not be better just to start officers off as officers?

 

[McInnes]

If you join the ranks you‘ll know what being a troop is all about, and how officer‘s are viewed, ect, ect. Before you lead you need to follow kind of thing. You can always transfer, and there is nothing to lose in it.

 

[Spr.Earl]

Originally posted by Mike Nagy:
[qb] Ok, I‘ve asked just about everyone this and have heard all sorts of responces, so I think it‘s time to ask the people there themselves. Right now I‘m 15 years old. I was wondering if I would be able to make it if I finished grade 10 when I turn 16 and leave school to join reserves and live on base in Edmonton, Alberta. Then join the army as an Infantry Soldier when I‘m 17, and re-enroll back into school through a distance eduction program to finish my high school so I can rank up to a Infantry Officer. Would this be able to work in reality or am I just living in my own little dream world? [/qb]

Mike after reading all the post‘s here on the whole evey one‘s right.
STAY IN SCHOOL AND GET YOUR GRADE 12 THEN JOIN IF YOU FEEL IT‘S RIGHT!

Get your Education first!!!
Yes I have my 4th Class Marine Engineers ticket but after a lot of hard work because I have only a grade 10 education!!!

Yes folk‘s Spr.Earl has only a grade 10 education!

With out a good education you will go no where!!

I‘ve survived by being a jack of all trade‘s and yet a Master of none except the sea and ship‘s and my adopted Army Trade as an Engineer.
Yet today I‘ve forgotten more in my 28yrs now.

Mike stay in school and get your education first!!
Take it from me,I‘m 50 now and I regret my disregard to school now and wish I could do it all over again!

Stay in School and Graduate!!

 

[miranda]

This is a big topic WRT CFR loose an excellent WO/MCpl whatever to the dark side. It is important to CFR to help the young officers grow and learn to become great officers. Nobody is born into thier rank. Having the crse alone will not enable you , we also need experience. Leadership is style adapted to situations. Education is important but common sense gets you there.

 

[clasper]

Originally posted by Yes Man:
[qb] Just a question, because I am one of those 19 year olds looking to become an officer. What do you think produces a better officer over all.

1) Someone who has started out as an officer young, and has been in the position for years.

or

2) Someone who started in the ranks and only has been an officer for a short time.

Which one of these two cases would most likely be a better officer?

I realize that a MCpl who has been in the army for 5+ years would probably make a better officer than a new recruit, but would you think a person who has been an officer for 5 years would be better at their job than a MCpl? because if thats the case would it not be better just to start officers off as officers? [/qb]

I worked for young officers fresh out of RESO, and for grizzled veterans who CFR‘d. The best officer I worked for in the reserves was actually neither. He had spent the previous 4 years of his life obtaining his PhD at Oxford. (In history- Britain in the inter-war period of all things.) The thing that distinguished him was his willingness to learn from his troops. He had spent some time at RMC, so he was familiar with the military in general, and was well prepared to deal with the general administration of troops. But he knew absolutely nothing about the unique world of EW. Which he proceeded to learn from his NCO‘s. He didn‘t learn everything we knew (we had several more years experience at it than he did) but he learned enough to make our jobs easier. (Which was his goal.)

That absolute honesty with himself and with his troops is what made him a good officer. It sounds easy to do, but it can be somewhat difficult once ego and "status" get in the way.

 

[1feral1]

In my opinion, good officers who develop into better officers are those that pay attention, and listen to and learn from their SNCOs and WOs.

Secondly, enlisted personnel have more time for officers who are not afraid to get dirty and work hard with their men if need be.

Thirdly good officers are usually the ones who spent some time in the ranks before deciding to CFR, although I have seen great oficers who either DEO, or come from ADFA style institutions.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Greywolf]

Getting into an officer trade is very competitive. I am 27 (almost 28) and originally applied for an officer position. I have 2 Bachelor Degrees (and my GPA are pretty good too), 2 years of experience working in a supervisory role...but was not accepted for the trades I applied for because I was told I did not have the preferred degree. (They wanted a Business degree...I got a degree in psychology and another one in education). So I decided to reapply for an NCM position, and right now I‘m still waiting for a reply (hopefully an offer soon). I eventually hope to get into an officer position, and I‘m willing to put in a few years as a private...so I can get the experience necessary.

Greywolf