We’ve given up on Canada’s military, so let’s abandon it altogether

[Jarnhamar]

Rereading the article I think I answered my own question - what's a feminist approach to the military.

“We’ve been setting an example ourselves and from day one when the government was elected — 50 per cent women and 50 per cent men [in cabinet], we have taken a feminist approach as a government,” he said.

So not so much about equality of men and women in the CAF but quotas. The government wants half of the CAF to be female.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Rereading the article I think I answered my own question - what's a feminist approach to the military.

“We’ve been setting an example ourselves and from day one when the government was elected — 50 per cent women and 50 per cent men [in cabinet], we have taken a feminist approach as a government,” he said.

So not so much about equality of men and women in the CAF but quotas. The government wants half of the CAF to be female.

How do they expect to accomplish this with out some sort of press gang or draft ?

 

[FSTO]

How do they expect to accomplish this with out some sort of press gang or draft ?

If that was to happen, I'd draft or press gang the activist first. Just to see how many would last through basic training. Who knows, they may surprise us and flourish in that environment!

 

[Quirky]

Rereading the article I think I answered my own question - what's a feminist approach to the military.

So not so much about equality of men and women in the CAF but quotas. The government wants half of the CAF to be female.

Not sure what koolaid they are drinking but that will never happen. We just need to weather this hipster liberal leadership shitstorm and hope the next government doesn’t have their heads up their asses.

 

[dapaterson]

You may want to read the defence policy on this...

 

[Remius]

Rereading the article I think I answered my own question - what's a feminist approach to the military.

So not so much about equality of men and women in the CAF but quotas. The government wants half of the CAF to be female.

The target might be parity.  That’s does not imply a quota.  People have been barking about quotas since they started letting women serve.  As far as I know the CAF does not nor will it ever have a quota system. 

It isn’t possible or sustainable but trying to increase the number of women is still the goal.

 

[dangerboy]

You may want to read the defence policy on this...

As stated this is the Governments goal:

Aspire to be a leader in gender balance in the military by increasing the representation of women by 1 percent annually over the next 10 years to reach 25 percent of the overall force.

From Strong, Secure Engaged. Canada's Defence Policy.

I don't think that this is a new goal I believe that previous Governments have had this goal also. 

 

[Quirky]

The target might be parity.  That’s does not imply a quota.  People have been barking about quotas since they started letting women serve.  As far as I know the CAF does not nor will it ever have a quota system. 

It isn’t possible or sustainable but trying to increase the number of women is still the goal.

With the amount of attention we’ve been getting, starting with OP Honour and all the people coming out with sexual assault allegations, now is probably the worst time to recruit females. I know I wouldn’t let my daughter join the CF.

 

[EpicBeardedMan]

With the amount of attention we’ve been getting, starting with OP Honour and all the people coming out with sexual assault allegations, now is probably the worst time to recruit females. I know I wouldn’t let my daughter join the CF.

Keyword being allegations..

 

[Underway]

I don't think that this is a new goal I believe that previous Governments have had this goal also.

The Treasury board who we take are marching orders from for hiring; has wanted this for decades.  It used to be 15% IIRC (but may be wrong) and we were not allowed to count reservists (which would have got us to 15% easy).

We've now reached the 15.1% mark for the entire CAF this year (rounding down 18% Airforce, 18% Navy, 12% Army).  So the next goal is 25% by the defence policy. Goals not quota's.  I think it's a completely achievable goal.  The critical mass is somewhere between 20-30% to reach a self sustaining percentage with little effort.  Because at those numbers young women can see role models and female mentors, thus changing their cultural perspective on the job in society at large.  They also feel more comfortable at their work without having to be "one of the boys" should that not appeal to them.  Retention improves and the who thing becomes a small positive feedback loop.

 

[daftandbarmy]

With the amount of attention we’ve been getting, starting with OP Honour and all the people coming out with sexual assault allegations, now is probably the worst time to recruit females. I know I wouldn’t let my daughter join the CF.

Compared with, like, the financial management sector, or fashion industry, or certain parts of the public service, or the natural resources sector, or universities.... right?

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Underway] Goals not quota's.
[/quote]

Through Canada’s Defence Policy, the Department of National Defence (DND) and the CAF will:
-Increase the proportion of women in the military by one percentage point annually, to achieve 25 percent representation by 2026, to our operational advantage;

Perhaps it's semantics but if quotas are  usually defined as required targets, while goals are defined as frequently desired outcomes, the defense policy language  (*will*) sounds like a quota to me.  Or really, an order.

 

[Piece of Cake]

Perhaps it's semantics but if quotas are  usually defined as required targets, while goals are defined as frequently desired outcomes, the defense policy language  (*will*) sounds like a quota to me.  Or really, an order.

Last time I checked, the SIP numbers are not broken down by gender, nor does gender affect a  recruit' s military potential score.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Rereading the article I think I answered my own question - what's a feminist approach to the military.

So not so much about equality of men and women in the CAF but quotas. The government wants half of the CAF to be female.

If I may- I believe that the idea was to set the ideal for a force representative of the larger Canadian population in terms of gender and cultural/race makeup rather than establishing a direct quota. The equality of men and women in leadership positions is an established fact, with women being more transformational than transactional (which, IAW our leadership doctrine is what we want). So, there's no reason why quality would even suffer if it were a 50/50 force, physical or intellectually.

So, to meet the 50% as discussed prior, we need to identify the delta that explains why women and minorities do not enter the CAF at the rate that societal percentages would indicate they should. The reason identified in academia is that there are gender and cultural bias, both individual and societal, that need to be overcome. First, the CAF has to be seen as a highly valued employer within those communities (breaking down implied bias') IOT increase the amount of women and minorities who want to enter the force. That's why Op HONOUR is such a large push. If we, the CAF, ever want to convince women that the army is a top tier employer worth their time (or anyone's for that matter) we have to start by convincing them that the stigma of the army as a boy's club is gone. This involves changing their personal bias' towards the CAF and changing CAF culture. Certainly, neither one of those goals is something that is going to happen anytime soon, so the 50% is certainly a goal not a quota.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Perhaps it's semantics but if quotas are  usually defined as required targets, while goals are defined as frequently desired outcomes, the defense policy language  (*will*) sounds like a quota to me.  Or really, an order.

To play a logic game- if we cannot get enough women/minorities into the doors of the recruiting centre what quota can be implemented? The recruiting system already allows any applicant who meets the basic standards of service (or in the case of physical fitness not even). Aside from identifying and working to resolve the reasons as to *why* those groups dont go to the recruiting centre in the first place, who cares what the % stated is? It's not like we're turning away truckloads of applicants.

 

[Jarnhamar]

To play a logic game- if we cannot get enough women/minorities into the doors of the recruiting centre what quota can be implemented?

Then we start charging recruiters like Buck with disobeying a lawful order  ;D

My only concern is lowering standards or requirements in various ways to achieve certain goals or quota's. If we put too much emphasis on Ys then we might lose a bunch of rockstar X's.

Maybe I'm a minority  but I think it's more important to have the smartest toughest fastest recruits irregardless of gender race or religion.  I get the government isn't concerned about small crap like that and has a priority of making the CAF look as diverse as possible.  We need to connect to other groups for sure (especially so we don't miss rockstars there because we're not attracting them very well).  I don't have a lot of faith in the CAF doing it in a measured way intelligent way.

The defense minister was bragging about a feminist driven 50/50 cabinet. The Justice minister comes to mind when I think of qualifications/skills vs putting someone in a position to reach a specific goal.

 

[Cloud Cover]

The defense minister was bragging about a feminist driven 50/50 cabinet. The Justice minister comes to mind when I think of qualifications/skills vs putting someone in a position to reach a specific goal.

ummm, hmmmmn.  I am pretty much now in the camp of those who see the Defence Minister as being in the same skill set as the Justice Minister. Parrots.
Which sucks, really, really does suck. At least Art Eggleton had an excuse. 

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Then we start charging recruiters like Buck with disobeying a lawful order  ;D

My only concern is lowering standards or requirements in various ways to achieve certain goals or quota's. If we put too much emphasis on Ys then we might lose a bunch of rockstar X's.

Maybe I'm a minority  but I think it's more important to have the smartest toughest fastest recruits irregardless of gender race or religion.  I get the government isn't concerned about small crap like that and has a priority of making the CAF look as diverse as possible.  We need to connect to other groups for sure. I don't have a lot of faith in the CAF doing it in a measured way intelligent way.

The defense minister was bragging about a feminist driven 50/50 cabinet. The Justice minister comes to mind when I think of qualifications/skills vs putting someone in a position to reach a specific goal.

I couldn't agree more that standards shouldn't be lowered. I don't believe in the long run they have to. Men and women are proven to be just as effective in leadership positions and there's no reason why this isn't true in every trade. Moreover, I don't think the kind of women or minorities we want would want standards to drop either. We need to make the CAF the employer if choice for the best and brightest as you note, which means changing cultured and implicit biases.

We need to move from the idea that a 50/50 force means lower standards- it doesn't. 

As for the justice minister- yes, she's terrible. However, you can't say it's due to a quota or being a female. She was the crown prosecutor of BC after all, so it's not like she wasn't accomplished.  You may remember one Julian fantino, arguably one of the worst ministers of all time. Does he represent all males or Italians?

 

[jollyjacktar]

It doesn't matter what calibre of recruit you attract if you cannot get then through the process in a reasonable time frame.  Getting that fresh face from curbside at the Recruitment Centre to curbside at St Jean, RMC, university or other stream needs to be better. 

I know times have changed and it's no longer two weeks and you're off.  But l know too many kids are spending too long waiting, on PAT etc that we're losing them.  It's happening in the Navy and l wouldn't be surprised the Army and Air Force have similar issues.  Both the recruiting and training systems need to work better to attract and keep those kids we need coming behind us.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Quite.