Wearing Uniform in Public (merged)

[fraserdw]

Pat

I think I would have written a report on Monday on the LCdr.  That one is very much a concern.  When I lived in Qs in Gagetown, my Q was on a short cut from the Sgt's Mess to the Q patch.  I looked out my living room to see the little wee wee of a drunken LDSH WO having a pee on my window sill.  I cornered him, drove him home and filed a report with my unit RSM.  He did alot of duties...... and took a dry out course. 

 

[Pat in Halifax]

Pat

I think I would have written a report on Monday on the LCdr.  That one is very much a concern.  When I lived in Qs in Gagetown, my Q was on a short cut from the Sgt's Mess to the Q patch.  I looked out my living room to see the little wee wee of a drunken LDSH WO having a pee on my window sill.  I cornered him, drove him home and filed a report with my unit RSM.  He did alot of duties...... and took a dry out course.

Fair enough, your call...and mine. I believe we all f*** up at times and deserve one kick at the cat ... on these types of things. It was nasty out (though summer) and I suspect a handful of people would have noticed him. Someday, we will cross paths again I am sure-The Navy community is 'smaller' than you may think.

 

[NavalMoose]

Here in Ottawa where there are so many officers it is commonplace to see the bag over the shoulder, the glazed eyes on the cellphone, the headphones in or the open jacket on the bus.  I don't usually travel in uniform especially in summer when it's really hot.  I am also aware I should say something when in uniform but I have been bitten by that in the old days so I let them look like idiots.  Maybe when I do get out I will say something.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

For a short time while I was in Ottawa, I was labled the "Shuttle, Dress Nazi" because I would invariably pick someone up for dress infractions, headphones, summer/winter dress, poppies 'out of season' that kind of thing every time I used one of the shuttles (I worked at HDV so was close to...well...NOTHING!). I was 'politely' asked by 'a' senior individual to cease and desist the 'small' stuff which surprised me. It was frustrating as it makes me wonder if people don't know something as basic and commonplace as dress regulations (for dress of the day-nothing over the top here), what else were they not aware of wrt either their work or something else...?
Ottawa mellowed me out I guess and I have yet to get back on the band wagon since getting back home to Halifax. I picked up a couple young fellas last Thursday for wearing poppies but other than that, it has been 'quiet' around Stad and the Dkyd I guess.
Note; I do not frequent Tim's or the Dkyd canteen (or whatever it is called these days) but have been told that a dress patrol could have a ball in either of them.

Pat

 

[Tank Troll]

I've get sick and tired of dealing with Offices and NCOs that don't wear their head dress in public, automatically take it off as soon as they get in their car. Matter of fact this summer the Det CSM of Aldershot even came out in his O group saying that you don't have to wear head dress in your personal vehicle on base. Even after it was pointed out to him that according to dress regs you do. No names but his regtiments unofficial motto "is never pass a fault" The worst is the Small Pack I see it being carried by more people in civis than in uniform. I've had leading seamen tell that they don't have to listen to me as I'm not in their chain of command. Sub Lt telling me to mind my on business when I told him he shouldn't be wearing neon yellow earbuds walking down the street in whites. So what do you do? You can only tilt a so many windmills till you just say F@#$ it.

 

[TN2IC]

So what do you do? You can only tilt a so many windmills till you just say F@#$ it.

Give them a size 11 Kiwi anal ejection.

 

[MikeL]

Give them a size 11 Kiwi anal ejection.

Assault?  Isn't that a bit overkill and you know a great way to slow down or end a career..

 

[TN2IC]

I simply forgot that it is hard to tell if someone is joking or not on the internet. This is a joke of course.

 

[MikeL]

I figured 

 

[Jarnhamar]

I've always taken my headress off in most buildings I've entered.
Montfort, mall, restaurant- guessing that's a big no no?

 

[aesop081]

Even after it was pointed out to him that according to dress regs you do.

The regs say a little more than that. You must have missed the parts where "unless such wear constitutes a hazard" or words to that effect.

I remove my headress immediately upon entering my car. Wearing my wedge is a problem when i turn my head thus creating a hazard.

Please, come jack me up. I dare you.

 

[Shamrock]

10. Non-Service Buildings. Headdress shall not normally be removed in any public place, including elevators. However, personnel may observe the custom practised by civilians in regard to the wearing of headdress in non-service buildings such as restaurants, theatres and civil courts. When on duty under arms as an escort in a civil court, headdress shall not be removed.

11. Public Transportation. Personnel travelling aboard a local public conveyance may remove their headdress. Personnel travelling
extended distances by aircraft, bus or rail, may remove their headdress while in transit, however, headdress shall be replaced prior to exiting the public conveyance, vehicle or aircraft.

12. Military and Privately Owned Motor Vehicles (PMV)

a. Members wearing the uniform shall wear appropriate headdress while operating or travelling as a passenger in all military vehicle except:

(1) if the roof of the vehicle is too low to permit headdress to be worn with comfort and safety;

(2) on extended trips;

(3) on order of the senior members present; and

(4) in a staff car, PMV or bus.

All vehicles that are rented by DND are considered to be a military vehicle.

b. When headdress has been removed in accordance with the provisions of the preceding sub-paragraph, it shall be replaced:

(1) when approaching and leaving a military establishment; and

(2) immediately upon exiting a military vehicle or PMV.

 

[winnipegoo7]

...don't have to wear head dress in your personal vehicle on base. Even after it was pointed out to him that according to dress regs you do... The worst is the Small Pack I see it being carried by more people in civis than in uniform.

Aren't small packs authorized for wear with civilian dress?

Which regulation requires that head dress be worn while driving a PMV?

 

[Sigs Pig]

Which regulation requires that head dress be worn while driving a PMV?

Well, according to Shamrock's quote, you wouldn't.

ME

 

[Shamrock]

That's a cut and paste from an Internet source and isn't necessarily the most up-to-date information.

Please note the inconsistency within the extract itself. It appears headdress is not to be worn in PMV less when leaving/arriving on a base. It also seems to say the removal of headdress is at the discretion of the senior most member in the vehicle - so, a no hook trooper can make the call to doff hat if he or she is the only soul in the vehicle.

I had originally pulled that to refute the claim that headdress must be worn indoors less messes or mess-like locales.

 

[Tank Troll]

The regs say a little more than that. You must have missed the parts where "unless such wear constitutes a hazard" or words to that effect.

I remove my headress immediately upon entering my car. Wearing my wedge is a problem when i turn my head thus creating a hazard.

Please, come jack me up. I dare you.

Please come jack me up. I dare you? What are you 8? Wow really? Thats how you respond? Arn't you or weren't you teaching at CFRS? Nice example you are setting. 

 

[Good2Golf]

Please come jack me up. I dare you? What are you 8? Wow really? Thats how you respond? Arn't you or weren't you teaching at CFRS? Nice example you are setting.

He was following up on your rant about officers and NCOs many of whom, as it turns out, ARE conforming with regs.

I've get sick and tired of dealing with Offices and NCOs that don't wear their head dress in public, automatically take it off as soon as they get in their car.

So the person with the problem is...?

 

[Pat in Halifax]

Grammar Nazi - It is NCM, NCO is an Americanized term!...but...
I think it is clear in the 'cut and paste from the internet' quote and YES, that is up to date. You wear it in your car and you most definitely wear it in service vehicles. See though, and this is something you are missing, this is where we are separated from others by COMMON SENCE-if it just plain doesn't work...improvise. As an example, it was an unwritten rule that when summer dress came into effect, if you experienced a colder than usual spring day, you wore gloves (and maybe your issue toque). There was so much bickering and needling that it is now a regulation. What is next - Will a specific temperature make it into the dress manual?
I remember being in Ft Lauderdale about 5-6 years ago in March and we had to provide a contingent for a ceremony there. We had been warned when we left Halifax to bring our whites. Anyway, a certain member of the chosen honour said he couldn't wear his whites because winter dress was in effect. I promptly told him to f*** off (in a more diplomatic way) so he promptly went to see the Cox'n who also told him to f*** off (in a more literal way).
Common sense prevails. I am 6'4" and 250 lbs and when I fold myself into my old Mustang, wearing headdress is physically impossible especially a peak cap. I do however make sure it is going on my head as I alight and unfold myself from the car. I remember my incident I was picked up for recently. When stopping for a coffee in the Byward Cafe in Ottawa's airport (removing my beret), my flight was departing from one of the gates right there. When it was about 15 minutes out from departure, I paid my bill and got in line. My beret SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON from the moment I left the cafe until I was on the aircraft and those are the rules. I was wrong, it was no big deal, and I think I actually thanked the MWO and the world did not end.
This thread DID NOT START because of incidents like these. This thread started because of the guys (and gals) wandering around with jackets undone, headdress off in a public place and generally looking slovenly in uniform. I understand many of us are passionate about what we do  but sometimes our passion may muddle our view of things (and I am no exception to this). Of course we aren't going to 'jack someone up' driving down Prospect Bay Rd at 0530 but someone on Metro Transit, yes or someone (and this gets me especially when it happens on Base) who completely disregards a well-advertised dress reg.
Rant done-Good Sunday morning to all!! Will be Hurricane-proofing the yard and house today.

Pat

 

[Edward Campbell]

Grammar Nazi - It is NCM, NCO is an Americanized term!...but...
I think it is clear in the 'cut and paste from the internet' quote and YES, that is up to date. You wear it in your car and you most definitely wear it in service vehicles. See though, and this is something you are missing, this is where we are separated from others by COMMON SENCE-if it just plain doesn't work...improvise. As an example, it was an unwritten rule that when summer dress came into effect, if you experienced a colder than usual spring day, you wore gloves (and maybe your issue toque). There was so much bickering and needling that it is now a regulation. What is next - Will a specific temperature make it into the dress manual?
I remember being in Ft Lauderdale about 5-6 years ago in March and we had to provide a contingent for a ceremony there. We had been warned when we left Halifax to bring our whites. Anyway, a certain member of the chosen honour said he couldn't wear his whites because winter dress was in effect. I promptly told him to f*** off (in a more diplomatic way) so he promptly went to see the Cox'n who also told him to f*** off (in a more literal way).
Common sense prevails. I am 6'4" and 250 lbs and when I fold myself into my old Mustang, wearing headdress is physically impossible especially a peak cap. I do however make sure it is going on my head as I alight and unfold myself from the car. I remember my incident I was picked up for recently. When stopping for a coffee in the Byward Cafe in Ottawa's airport (removing my beret), my flight was departing from one of the gates right there. When it was about 15 minutes out from departure, I paid my bill and got in line. My beret SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON from the moment I left the cafe until I was on the aircraft and those are the rules. I was wrong, it was no big deal, and I think I actually thanked the MWO and the world did not end.
This thread DID NOT START because of incidents like these. This thread started because of the guys (and gals) wandering around with jackets undone, headdress off in a public place and generally looking slovenly in uniform. I understand many of us are passionate about what we do  but sometimes our passion may muddle our view of things (and I am no exception to this). Of course we aren't going to 'jack someone up' driving down Prospect Bay Rd at 0530 but someone on Metro Transit, yes or someone (and this gets me especially when it happens on Base) who completely disregards a well-advertised dress reg.
Rant done-Good Sunday morning to all!! Will be Hurricane-proofing the yard and house today.

Pat

NCM is a fairly recent thing.

When I began my service we were subdivided into: Officers and men (yes, there were women, but not many and they didn't count for much).

          Within the officer ranks there were also divisions (general officers, senior officers, field officers, junior officers - who were further subdivided into
          captains and subalterns) and subordinate officers who were not really officers at all, yet); and

          We, men, were subdivided into warrant officers, senior NCOs and the rank and file, who comprised the junior NCOs and private soldiers.

But we were NCOs: one went on a Junior NCO Course and then a Senior NCO Course.

I'm guessing that the NDA and QR&O still talks about NCOs.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

Fair enough. I suppose it is like the term "Compensatory Leave". I know in the Navy, the terms 'senior' and 'junior rates' is still thrown around too.
See, now you guys have me all riled up and I feel the need to go head hunting for dress infractions tomorrow!!-I do have a pretty heavy schedule though...hmm! What to do...

Pat