What does time have in store for our militaty?

[Ryan_Bohm]

As a new recruit going away to BMQ I cant help but wonder where the military is heading. With the promise of 5000 new troops but the government is not willing to increase spending. I think that moth balling the three distroyels and 1/4 of the CF-18's shows that the military is not a priority. Also this would tick of the americans because how could we participate in NORAD with so few operational fighter jets and no ships.   The with the veterens who served in the great war wanting to go over to Europe to celebrate the 60th aniversery of D-Day where they suffered and lost comrades and the goverment didt support there trips; only some from what I understand. I am looking forward to serving the country and the people within it but I cant help to wonder. Anyone eles comments on the future of the military would be greatly appreciated. What do you see down the road?  

 

[CDNBlackhawk]

The Top General of the CF's already said that they are not comming up with the money by moth balling cf18 jets and 3 fighters ships, he clearly said their will be more funding and details are being worked out right now.
He clearly said those accusations were false.

Its on the www.dnd.ca sight you can click the link from their

 

[Ryan_Bohm]

The Top General of the CF has the bests interests of the forces in heart. He can say that those allegations are false because I am sure Martin may be denying it due to the fact of the stink it could cause. The Liberal government seems to deny alot of things these days.. It is Martin and the Liberal government that makes the decesions regarding fundiing etc. I would feel more comfortable if Martin came out and said it or the defense Minster. If they have allready please correct me.

 

[CDNBlackhawk]

Nope they havent,
That said, if it was PM or the DM saying it, everyone would be saying they would rather hear it from the TOP General.
I agree Liberals are a Joke, But the Accusations of grounding 20 or so Cf 18's and 3 war Ships, is completly false IMO, Government and TOP Brass can not be that Blatently  stupid to do it that way.

But one thing i can assure, is the Conservative power in GOV will work their hardest to make sure they dont do somthing like that.

 

[Ryan_Bohm]

Yeah ur right you do have a point with that.     I am glad that we have a strong opposition in parliament that does fight for the CF but the liberals still hold a majority government. The sad thing is the fact that more people do not complain about whats happening. People just dont take the time to to actually phone their MP or write. I think if more people did that maybe things would change? Is it that the citizens dont really care about the CF or are they just not willing to fight to keep it.   :You said that the government could not be so blatently stupid to ground 20 or so CF-18's and mothball our 3 ships in order to pay for the 5000 new peacekeeprs.. I would have to disagree. Look at the Sea King's (enough said).....sending troops in wrong unifroms......not allowing vets to go to the 60th aniversary of D-day and the list goes on. Look what the liberals have done to the forces, nothing would surprise me. All the government is concerned about is cutting corners with the CF, allready barebone 13Billion budget. 

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Australia seems to survive well on a comparable budget.  :

 

[CDNBlackhawk]

Ryan i agree  , Liberals havent done anything in the past to prove they will follow through in the right direction to expand our forces, their track record speaks for its self, I guess i am hopeful that since we are so strapped as it is, that things will only get better, I try to remain positive even though things dont look positve most of the time. I am just hopeing and crossing my fingers that the strong Opposition will fight for the right changes.

EX. Dragoon

That still boggles me, Australlia, a country that is smaller in Population, but almost identical in economy is really doing great things with their Military, I mean their forces are still smaller then ours, i believe they sit around 50,000 compared to our whooping 60,000 approx soldiers, sailers and Airmen/woman.
But they seem to be years ahead of us in Technology for our forces.
It would be nice if Canada could use their military as a blue print in some aspects to where we should head, as far as Equipment and a positive direction.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Agreed Cdn....I guess I just trust the word of my CDS Ryan they are not in the habit of lying.

 

[Ryan_Bohm]

*CDN* Blackhawk - I to will try to remain positive. If I didt see any light at the end of the tunnel I would not have joined. Thats all you can do.
Ex-Dragoon - I think the difference in Austrailia and Canada is the way the government runs. The liberals have a bad track record manageing money and this is proven buy your statment. If they can do it we can too. Just look at the sponsorship scandal. Thats one thing that we know about, how many have we missed or not just been told about. 13 Billion can be done as proven by Austrailia, but not with this government wasteing money.  By the way what does CDS mean?

 

[Kirkhill]

Would the Aussie's better record have anything to do with less concern about maintaining surplus bases and infrastructure in the name of not perturbing the local electorate and with more concern about buying capability off the shelf (even if second-hand) than redistributing the DND budget to said loyal electors via Public Works and Government Services Canada, the Liberal Party and Industrial Regional Benefits?  :rage:

By the way CDS = Chief of Defence Staff (Top Uniform).

Chris.

 

[Lance Wiebe]

IIRC, the Aussies did a huge "restructuring" a few years ago.  Redefined all of their HQ, and cut senior officers by something like 20%.  There was a huge rationalization, where every department had to prove their right to exist.  Support trades, combat arms, everything was tested, found wanting, modified, and restructured.  It turned them around.

Sounds to me like we could use the same thing...........

 

[CDNBlackhawk]

Agreed Cdn....I guess I just trust the word of my CDS Ryan they are not in the habit of lying.

Agreed if their is anyones word we should be trusting it would CDS

 

[Ryan_Bohm]

Yes forsure I trust the CDS over any politician anyday....I wont argue with anyone that.  Thanks Kirkhill for clearing up that term for me.

Lance Weibe - do you see any plans for restructuring the canadian forces down the road particularity with the Martin Liberal government or do you think that will happen if another party gets elected. Were do you see the wastes in the CF besides the HP thing. Do you see cutting senior officers down a good idea in the CF?  What do you suggest? I respect your opinion because you have many years of experience and insight that us younger members do not have.

 

[OLD F of S]

      When I joined the army was at 65000 then along came the liberals under Trudeau
when I left all forces combined eg air,sea and land was barely 60000. I don't trust a Liberal
govt when it comes to funding the forces.

 

[Torlyn]

Yeah ur right you do have a point with that.  I am glad that we have a strong opposition in parliament that does fight for the CF but the liberals still hold a majority government.

As such, the liberals have a minority government at the moment, which is why they are actually listening to the defence critics...  If they get a challenge on a vote, they sure as hell don't want it to be regarding something that Paul Martin promised during the election.  I doubt even the media would be able to put a positive spin on a vote of no-confidence over something like that...  I think it'll be an interesting race, at the moment, between election promises and the next election.  There has been a lot of discussion regarding the increased CF troop numbers, but I doubt anything will be started until we have a majority government again.  We'll see what happens after the next election in 2-ish or so years, and then, IF the liberals get back in.  If we move to a conservative government (Ontario, I'm looking at you) they'll most likely mothball the liberals' plans, and create their own.  More money wasted that should be going to the CF... Sigh.  *LOVE* the government... 

 

[badapple]

One thing i would suggest the CF needs is a reduction in senior officer staff and an increase in senior ncos.  I read a study, the name of which eludes me right now but i can dig it up if needed, in which the opinion was given that there is a lack of personel in leadership at the NCM level.

Obviously, the liberals getting out of power would be THE SINGLE BIGGIST IMPROVEMENT that would benifit the CF the most.

Beyond that, treating CF members with more dignity would help enrollment and reduce attrition, Increasing the time to retirement shows no respect for members.

Adding 5000 members would be detrimental to our situation

 

[Ryan_Bohm]

Toryln. Sorry I totaly slipped my mind that the liberal's now have  a minority government. So used to it being the opposite. The challenging vote is also called a vote of confidence so you were right. If the liberals would lose the vote parliment would get dissolved and a new election would be rendered and it would be put into the hands of the people of Canada again. I guess people are ok with the government stealing millions (that we know about). I agree with you there it would be interesting election. I am skeptical about it though. If what the liberals did doesnt change the vote then  what the heck will? The polls were very close up and till the election but this election there was a high percentage of people who were undecided. Alot of people I have talked to (older generation ) voted liberal because thats what they have always done. I feel its every citizens obligation to make an infromed vote due to the fact that men + woman gave up their lives for us  to do so. It ticks me off when you talk to people who voted and know nothiing about the party.  The downside of a minority governement is it makes it hard to act to do certain things which can be a good thing and a bad thing.

 

[Kirkhill]

There was an interesting article today in the National Post concerning cooperation amongst the Bloc, the NDP and the Conservatives.  They are actively cooperating and styling themselves as "the majority parties". 

They are talking about amending the throne speech.  It presents  a very interesting picture.  If they can find common ground they can organize votes in the house and force legislation over the wishes of the Government.

Strangely it presents the possibility of the Government not being able to push its agenda, the house taking action against the wishes of the Government and the Government not being ALLOWED to fall on a Confidence vote. 

Thus the next election would be fought only if Paul decided it, he could not argue that the Opposition forced it, or if the Opposition wanted it.

Also it would blunt all the cavilling about extremism.  No party could call the other extremist if they had been seen to be able to cooperate.  Not an unhopeful sign.

Regards the CF.  Everybody knows the Conservatives support enhancing the CF, not so well known is that there are strong NDP voices like Bill Blaikie an Peter Stoffer (?spelling?) that also support an enanced peacekeeping (sorry lads but that's their words and that is what will get you more money for more bodies) capabilities.  Bloquiste and even some Anti-American Liberals also support CF enhancement.

On the strength of that article I now think it is too early to be predicting the imminent death of the CF. 

Where there is life there is hope.

Cheers

 

[Kirkhill]

Another, even more positive sign of hope.

From the Toronto Star (aka the Red Star, whose support waffles between the NDP and the Liberals)  Todays Editorial.

We could budget $24 billion a year and still lag behind most of our allies in relative terms. Our sovereignty and our global status are worth that much.

The title of the editorial is Canada needs full defence debate.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1093558209841&call_pageid=968256290204

If "majority parties" want it there will be a full defence and foreign policy review, regardless of the Liberals wishes.

 

[Ryan_Bohm]

Thanks Kirkhill for postiing the article. It was a good read forsure.