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"What if??" A thread for people who like to speculate

Old Sweat said:
You killed Goering off with the first bomb, but then have him running a puppet government. Otherwise, good stuff.

It's Goering. Normal space-time continuum doesn't apply here ;) .
 
Old Sweat said:
Capt Sensible,

You killed Goering off with the first bomb, but then have him running a puppet government. Otherwise, good stuff.

"e's not quite dead yet."  8)
 
Old Sweat said:
Capt Sensible,

You killed Goering off with the first bomb, but then have him running a puppet government. Otherwise, good stuff.
ROLMAO!
Naturally a Ginger Addicted Alien saved him!

(Is there a delete button?)

I'll fix that "minor" error tomorrow!  I'm off to play Squad Leader!  Cheers!

:D
 
Old Sweat said:
Capt Sensible,

You killed Goering off with the first bomb, but then have him running a puppet government. Otherwise, good stuff.

Danjanou said:
Well he’s already got Goering in there for the sex.  :o :o

See, the problem is solved. Goering was supposed to be at that meeting, but was rather rudely interrupted by a blinding flash of light coming in through the bedroom window (not his bedroom window BTW.) very early in the morning........
 
Harry Turtledove and Richard Dreyfuss (the actor) wrote an interesting mystery set in a world where the American Revolution never took place:

http://www.amazon.com/Two-Georges-Novel-Alternate-America/dp/0812544595

http://www.sfsite.com/~silverag/review.html#mcgregor

THE TWO GEORGES by Richard Dreyfuss and Harry Turtledove reviewed by Alayne McGregor

It's 1996: King-Emperor Charles III is the middle of his glorious reign over a British Empire covering the globe, while the Sons of Liberty plot his overthrow. Giant airships carry passengers from Victoria, the capital of the North American Union, across the continent to New Liverpool; however, when Governor-General Sir Martin Luther King wants to cross to the California coast, he does it by train, with political speeches at every whistle-stop.

You may have gathered this world is slightly different from ours.

In this world, there never was an American Revolution. Instead, George III and George Washington reached an agreement in the 1760s to create a separate privy council for the American colonies, satisfying the colonists' concerns and keeping North America securely in the Empire. That agreement was immortalized by Gainsborough in his painting The Two Georges, which has become an icon in the NAU. Copies of the painting even adorn paper banknotes.

It's no wonder Colonel Thomas Bushnell of the Royal American Mounted Police is nervous. He has the duty of guarding The Two Georges for a two-month stay in a museum in New Liverpool. Everything looks secure at the opening reception at the governor's mansion, but the Sons of Liberty are cleverer; a guest is assassinated, and, in the confusion, the painting is spirited away.

That's the signal for Bushnell to embark on a search across the continent from the far north-western islands to the east coast, trying to discover the Sons' network. On the way, we see a very different society than today's United States or Canada: more hierarchical and linked to Britain, but also more peaceful, and with better treatment of its black, Hispanic, and Indian minorities.

Together with his stalwart black adjutant, Samuel Stanley, and Kathleen Flannery, the chief curator for the travelling exhibition (who can't quite be dropped from the list of suspects), Bushnell has to dodge Russian bullets and grenades as he fights for his country against a bunch of xenophobic extremists, who will do anything to make America "free".

Some things of note in this book:

The great empires still exist.
Edward VIII never abdicated.
John F. Kennedy is an crotchety 70 year old publisher of a small independence newspaper.
Technology and values are about 50 or 60 years behind.
Honest (Tricky) Dick is a steamer (steam-powered car) salesman.

EDIT to add Amazon.com link.
 
For a very bent alternate history try Philip K Dick. Many people know "The Man in the High Castle", an alternate history where Germany and Japan win WW II and America is occupied and divided between them.

But then there is this.....

Radio Free Albemuth
By Philip K. Dick

Originally published in 1985
Trade paperback published by Vintage
Currently available

Plot Summary:
In the late 1960's, a paranoid incompetent has schemed his way into the White House and convulsed America in a vicious war against imaginary internal enemies. A struggling science fiction writer named Philip K. Dick is trying to keep from becoming one of that war's casualties. And Dick's best friend, a record executive named Nicholas Brady, is receiving transmissions from an extraterrestrial entity that may also happen to be God - an entity that apparently wants him to overthrow the President.

In Radio Free Albemuth, his last novel, Philip K. Dick morphed and recombined themes that had informed his fiction from A Scanner Darkly to VALIS and produced a wild, impassioned work that reads like a visionary alternate history of the United States. Agonizingly suspenseful, darkly hilarious, and filled with enough conspiracy theories to thrill the most hardened paranoid, Radio Free Albemuth is proof of Dick's stature as our century's greatest prankster-prophet.
 
a_majoor said:
For a very bent alternate history try Philip K Dick. Many people know "The Man in the High Castle", an alternate history where Germany and Japan win WW II and America is occupied and divided between them.
Didn't P.K. Dick write "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?"
 
HitorMiss said:
So Sensible..when is the next instalment????
Holy crap: I should charge admission!

(Actually have some work on the go right now.  Hopefully early this afternoon, Atlantic time)
 
Captain Sensible said:
FIRE OVER BERLIN
Robert Oppenheimer.  He was the head scientist running Operation MANHATTAN, a super-secret experiment being conducted in the deserts of Nevada.  The plan was to creat a bomb so powerful that it would render an entire city into flame.  There were nay-sayers at all levels, but even the new president, Harry Truman, felt that "something had to happen" to end the war.  Though "Germany First" was the policy, it was proving to be more difficult.  The Japanese were being driven back on all fronts, due in thanks mostly to the US.  If successful, the new "Atomic" bombs would be dropped on Germany.  It was hoped that by destroying an entire city with just one bomb would  break the back of resistance.
The USSR was bogged down in an extended line of trench warfare with the Germans.  This gave the Germans the opportunity to rotate divisions in and out of the line, as well as to give new divisions some combat experience before heading to the Western or Italian front.  Unlike 1943, the Eastern Front was the "quiet" front for Germany.  The Western Allies noted that there were several attacks being conducted by the Soviets, but in every case, they were blunted by the Germans.  Manpower was also in decline in the Soviet Union.  Some "divisions" had fewer than 5000 soldiers!  Tanks were plentiful, but tank crews were not.  Any crewmen with experience were either dead or captured.  Every year, it seemed, the Soviet tank arm had to reinvent itself.
The Italian front bogged down north of Rome.  When liberated from the Germans in October 1944, the Pope himself greeted the British General commanding the forces upon his arrival at The Holy See.  Following a short audience with His Holiness, the British and Americans went back to the deadly business of fighting the Germans.  By April 1945, they were only 20 miles north of Rome: the terrain and dogged resistance of the Germans prevented any marked advance.
In France, the offensive near Brest was a psychological blow to the US forces.  Thus far, they had conducted all offensive operations above division level.  Though the Commonwealth forces had faced their share of offensives, all with mixed results, the allocation of the US Army Air Force to Suppression of Enemy Air Defence (SEAD) missions had let them down.  They were unable to note the build up of some six divisions south of Brest, in spite of warnings from the Resistance.  It was noted, however, that the Resistance was heavily compromised by Canaris' effective counter insurgency campaign.  In short, the Resistance was basically ignored.  For the first time since 5 June 1944, there were no major combat operations occurring in France: both sides were spent, and the Allies decided to keep up the pressure with their air units, allowing the ground units to build up for a surge to finally break the back of German resistance in France.
6 June 1945, the first anniversary of the landings in France came and went with nary a fan fare.  "Signal" magazine noted the anniversary with a photo respective of the event, and included an extensive photo spread of the 12th SS's attack into SWORD beach.  Some of the photos were published for the first time, including one in which a smiling young Hitler Youth, brandishing an MG-42, is seen standing over the bodies of unidentified Allied soldiers.  Later, the UK press used this very photo to accuse Germany of Warcrimes, suggesting that the dead were just gunned down by the smiling fanatic.  In actuality, the photo was staged, and the "dead" were simply friends of the soldier lying face down in the sand, field grey greatcoats covering their distinctive "Flecktarn" tunics.  In fact, the photo was taken well before D-Day, back in Germany, on exercise!
The summer of 1945 was one of flow and ebb in France.  In the end, the US forces on the Allied right wing were able to break through the thinning German ranks and reached Brest.  Though the city was still garrisoned by some 10,000 Germans, the Americans carried on their advance.  It was not without loss, but once more, the front was moving, albeit at a snail's pace.
By the end of July, the Americans had doubled the amount of "liberated" French territory.  The Germans simply failed to have sufficient forces to push the Americans back, though they still retained enough combat power to keep their advances minimal.
The summer of 1945 was quite quiet in the Eastern Front.  The soviets simply didn't have any ideas left.  Stalin was enraged and initiated his third purge.  This time, the Generals had enough!  Once word spread that any purge was underway, a group of generals, under a young Nikita Kruschev, branded Stalin as a Nazi puppet and called for his head.  Stalin was to blame, they asserted, and slowly but surely the USSR split into two camps.  The effect on the front was negligible at first, as the front line divisions were content to let the rear echelon pigeons sort out the national leadership.  As far as they were concerned, it mattered not who was in charge, for nothing would change the fact that they were at war with Germany.  As the Communists fought amongst themselves in the rear, production was curtailed, limited supplies to the front.  The Germans were well aware of the situation and chose to exploit it by not attacking.  They simply allowed the USSR to fight amongst itself.  The German High Command estimated that the USSR would implode in a matter of months, if not weeks, much as had happend back in 1917.
Early August would bring about an end to the war, much swifter than anyone had expected.  The USSR was for all intents and purposes embroiled in a civil war, though the front was still maintained.  German forces opposite curtailed combat operations there such that Soviets were free to emerge from their bunkers and in some cases, mingle with German, Hungarian, Dutch, Finnish and even Rumanian soldiers in the bunkers opposite.  This practice was officially forbidden, but in reality, it happened more often than the High Command cared to know about.
At Bremenhaven at 0100 on 6 August 1945, a coastal RADAR detected a single bomber approaching the airspace of the Reich.  This was not unusual: single bombers usually made reconnaissance flights over the Reich.  They flew too high for most fighters, but due to operations elsewhere, none of the high flying jets were available for intercept.  As well, Wasserfall wasn't very good against solo aircraft.  To be most effective, the enemy bombers had to be in a mass formation, which they themselves needed to have any accuracy when they bombed.   So, the operators reported the contact and began to track it. 
The plane was a single RAF Lancaster.  On board was a mixed Allied crew.  The pilot was Canadian, the rest of the flight crew were British, but the bombardier and "special crewman" were American.  Though the US wanted to use a high flying B-29 for this mission, Eisenhower decided against it.  None were used as yet in Europe, and he didn't want anything tipping off the Germans that this mission was different.  For purely political reasons, the crew was a mixed Commonwealth crew, but the bombardier and "special crewman" had to be American.  The bombardier was trained in the use of the "Little Boy" Atomic Bomb.  The target for the crew was Berlin.  Specifically, the Reichstag. 
Berlin was chosen for a few key reasons.  First, as capital of the Reich, it was serve to give notice to the Germans that not even their vaunted "Reichshauptstadt" were safe.  Also, it had been nearly two years since the Allies had bombed Berlin in any serious level.  Therefore, any and all damage in the heart of the city would be seen to have been caused by one plane carrying one bomb.  As well, with any luck, the German government may be caught in the blast, decapitating the German war machine, giving the Allies the upperhand they most desparately needed!
At 0315 on 6 August 1945, parts of Eastern Germany reported "the greatest flash of light" ever seen coming from Berlin.  On the ground moments before the blast it was a calm Monday morning.  The explosion changed all that in an instant.  Though most people were sleeping, those who were out in the open were killed instantly.  Farther away from the epicentre, there were survivors from the initial effects of the explosion, but soon the air was filled with flying debris of all kinds, from the expected, such as masonry, to the macabre, including bodies and parts of bodies.  As fortune would have it, the German Government was readying for a meeting that was to start at 0330.  An emergency session was called due to a recent telegram received "through Switzerland" from Kruschev.  Apparently he was seeking terms for a ceasefire, to be followed up by a peace agreement.  The first elements of the government were just arriving at the Reichstag when the Little Boy exploded some 1,500 feet above them.  There were no survivors.
Goering was still in Potsdam, his driver waiting for him outside a dank apartment building.  What was going on in there was never questioned.  Once it was clear that Berlin had just suffered an attack on a biblical scale, Goering and the remnants of his staff drove hell bent for leather for Rastenburg.  Orders were given to shoot down any unidentified planes that came within 100 miles, and a signifigant number of Wasserfall batteries were positioned.  Goering went into a radio silence mode as he contemplated his next moves.
As the first streaks of sun began to fill the skies of Europe, Germans awoke to the sight of dark, foreboding clouds over Berlin.  Though it was true that most of the city was unharmed by the blast, the centre had been gutted.  There was no communication coming from Berlin, and a general sense of panic began to creep into the national German psyche.
The western allies were estatic with the results.  The Germans were so shocked that most messages were sent in the clear and un encrypted, and therefore intercepted.  Units were screaming for direction from above, but nobody seemed to know what to do, or even what was going on.  The only front that remained somewhat calm was the Eastern Front, where they had their own problems to deal with, least the "unfounded" rumours that Berlin had just been destroyed by a single plane!
As they pored over the results, the western allies struggled with finding a suitable second target.  Though offers of ceasefire were given, no replies were received.  Though they intended to inflict a severe blow to the German government, they didn't think that they would be so effective, and as a result, nobody in the German camp knew who had authority any more!  Given that a second attempt by a solo bomber would probably not go through the air defence systems so easily, a coastal city would be chosen so that the air defences would have less of a chance to engage the bomber.  This time, Hamburg was chosen.  Not only was it on the coast, it was large enough to psychologically attack the Germans. 
Three nights later, on 9 August 1945, the raid on Hamburg was underway.  The Lancaster approached the coast low so as to avoid RADAR.  A deception mission was currently underway with a number of "solo" bombers approaching the Reich that night.  One raid was actually intercepted by an Me-110 night fighter, but the rest got through.  Most importantly, the Lancaster with the "Fat Man" bomb aboard made it to Hamburg.  The crew climbed to altitude and dropped their load right over the harbour.  As the explosion ripped through the yards, fires spread through the city.  Panic reigned supreme over the normal staid Germans and they began to flee the city.  Normal bombing raids were hard on a person, but there was nothing like the effect of awakening from a deep slumber to only suddenly realise that your city was on fire!
Panic spread throughout the Reich right to the front.  First Berlin, and now Hamburg were in flames!  The government had somehow reformed, and there were violent arguments in the depths of Berlin as to what to do next.  Some argued for staying the course.  Others argued that any further resistance would be in vain.  And it would destroy Germany in the mean time.  The tipping point came in his broadcast to the union on the morning of 9 August.  President Truman announced the Atomic Bombings of Berlin and Hamburg.  He promised his citizens that the rain of Atomic Bombs would continue until the German government surrendered to "the Western Allies".
Upon hearing the two words "Western Allies", the German High Command realised that they got their wish: the end of the war with the West.  Though the Soviet Union was vast and had a seemingly endless supply of men, the industry of the West, and the United States in Particular, was what they feared most.  Also, the USSR was in the midst of full blown civil war.  Nothing was to be gained by continuing the war.  Germany was relatively unscathed, the forces in moderate shape, and they could finally have "peace with honour".
At 1245 9 August 1945, Field Marshall Jodl announced on the radio that he had ordered "All German forces on land, at sea and in the air" to cease combat operations effective 1800 9 August, Berlin time.  Though the negotiations would continue, specifically regarding reparations to France, the war was over.  The USSR was in the midst of a bloody civil war.  It was ironic that the Western Allies asked the Germans to continue their occupation of western Russia and the Ukraine to maintain "Law and Order".  Unknown to Washington and London, but the German sense of "Law and Order" for the slavic peoples was rather brutish: the concentration camps had pretty well finished up exterminating the European Jewish population, and was beginning to work overtime on other 'undesirables'.  Though the war was over, and France, the low countries, Denmark and Norway were liberated, the Germans "maintained" a presence over Eastern Europe, at least for the time being.
By 1948, the civil war in the USSR was over.  Stalin's supporters had emerged victorious, with Kruschev's group being all but eliminated.  The Germans had handed over control of Poland and the rest of eastern Europe, only after they eliminated all traces of the death camps.  Though rumours abounded as to their existance, most people wished these away as fanciful propaganda.  Stalin wanted to press on the war against Germany, but the US and UK would have none of it.  Though no longer supported by the lend-lease convoys, the USSR was still a formidable opponent. 
MORE TO COME.....

EDIT: Goering now has sex and lives through the atomic bombing of Berlin, but flees and goes into 'radio silence' mode.  The German government is not answering the phone, as it were.

Just reposting this here to correct my "minor" error of killing off Goering and then having his stunt double appear in my latest installment :D
 
Man, I'm a "write a holic".  I just cut and paste all I wrote into 12 pitch, times new roman, double spaced, and I have THIRTY FOUR pages! 
"Hi, My name is David, and I'm a write a holic"
"Hi David"
 
Captain Sensible said:
Man, I'm a "write a holic".  I just cut and paste all I wrote into 12 pitch, times new roman, double spaced, and I have THIRTY FOUR pages! 
"Hi, My name is David, and I'm a write a holic"
"Hi David"


Something that I think would be helpful to all of us who are following this epic 'what if' of yours:
Each part that has been posted so far are put into one long thread so that the reading can be un interupted. A thread devoted entirely to the writings of 'Sensible's what if,' a thread without commentary (there could possibly a seperate thread for commentary).
 
midget-boyd said:
Something that I think would be helpful to all of us who are following this epic 'what if' of yours:
Each part that has been posted so far are put into one long thread so that the reading can be un interupted. A thread devoted entirely to the writings of 'Sensible's what if,' a thread without commentary (there could possibly a seperate thread for commentary).

If the mods could do that, that would be alright with me.  I won't post one HUGE message, however.  Those are just awefully hard to read :D

 
Captain Sensible said:
If the mods could do that, that would be alright with me.  I won't post one HUGE message, however.  Those are just awefully hard to read :D

As long as it's not the "water thread".
 
Captain Sensible said:
If the mods could do that, that would be alright with me.  I won't post one HUGE message, however.  Those are just awefully hard to read :D
No, not one HUGE message. I like it being broken down into individual posts like they are now. Easy to read and you get the chance to sit on the edge of your seat eaiting for the next chapter. :D
 
Speaking of which whens the next one coming lol  ;D im about ready to fall of the chair dam gravity
 
Haggis said:
As long as it's not the "water thread".

The water thread was the finest collective literary achevement of Army.ca (The good Captain's alternate history is a singular effort [and a darned fine one at that]), and should be on Amazon.com real soon now.........once the royalty arrangements are worked out.

For anyone lookn1g for a Canadian Alternate History story to start, consider the Current Affairs and News thread about Government to Fund the reforming of CMR. Change the wording slightly ("reforming of the CMR") and you can go in all kinds of different directions.
 
a_majoor said:
For anyone lookn1g for a Canadian Alternate History story to start, consider the Current Affairs and News thread about Government to Fund the reforming of CMR. Change the wording slightly ("reforming of the CMR") and you can go in all kinds of different directions.

Armoured Cav on the cheap??
 
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