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What is a Merc?

George Wallace

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Some people in several other forums are bring up the term "Merc" or "Mercenary" and making comments on what they are.  Some people are making comments to the effect that they "don't like Mercs".  There is a problem here when someone makes comments about things, but know nothing of which they are commenting on.  The question here is "What is a Merc?"  Where do we find Mercs?  Who can be a Merc?  How are they employed?  Who employs them?  How are they recruited?  What skill must they have?  What defines a Merc?

If you join the Foreign Legion of France or Spain, and get paid by that government, are you a Merc?  If you leave Nepal and join the UK Forces as a Gurkha, are you a Merc because you get paid by the Queen?  If you are sent to the Afghanistan to conduct security operations for the UN and are paid by the Canadian Government as a member of the CF; are you a Merc?

Think about it.  What is a Merc?

GW
 
mer ·ce ·nar ·y    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (mûrs-nr)
adj.
1. Motivated solely by a desire for monetary or material gain.
2. Hired for service in a foreign army.
 
So with you technical description, is a Merc one or the other or both?

Are three quarters of the CF, the one's in it solely for the money, Mercs?

And I guess that makes members of the Gurkha Regiments and the Foreign Legions all Mercs?
 
Mostly it's just a word thrown around by people to describe other people who have the parts to do things they'd never be able to do.
 
George Wallace said:
And I guess that makes members of the Gurkha Regiments and the Foreign Legions all Mercs?
technically, yes. Institutionalized mercenary organizations. In fact, the Nepalese also hire Gurkhas to India. I forget exactly how the various involved nations got around the Treaties banning the use of mercenary forces over the centuries, however.

As for the morality/legality of "today's mercenaries", well, like 'em (and I do) or not, they ain't a-gonner go away. Prostitution is illegal all over the world, too. That's worked well so far.
 
Prostitution is also legal in places...

Likewise, Merc's are illigal in most places but a lot of countries use them.

The problem I had which I didn't think of until this thread and another is... how do you put them into a description.

We're gonna need examples to describe the merc's 'of today'.  For example... the green beret in Afghanistan who tortured those Afghans and is now sitting in a jail.
Than you have the merc's who tried to do a coup in what was it... somewhere in Africa I think.

Now there rotting in one of the worst prisons in the world.

Now you compare them to the contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan.  Thats where the line blurs.  Someone please explain to me what the hell is the difference between the "Contract workers" (numbering some 15 thousand) in iraq and the Merc's who try to do a coup? (Aside from one which seems Morally right and the other being morally wrong.. if you can say maken a coup is wrong).
 
the green beret in Afghanistan who tortured those Afghans
Some pedantic semantics here (I just had to make it rhyme, sorry  ;) ): primus - I wear a green beret. Soldiers who serve in the US Army Special Forces are just that, soldiers. They get touchy about being called a hat, mostly due to the media's mis-use of the term over the decades.
secundus - Idema was not in the US Army Special Forces. He was CSS, not infantry. Those boys hate him for many, many reasons, all relating to his posing and lying over several years. Go to SOCNET and type his name into the Search feature. Page upon page of vitriol being spewed on his name, with accompanying curses bening placed on his family for generations to come.
(And I have no idea if my latin is remotely correct, but it sounds kinda cool, doesn't it?  ;D )

please explain to me what the heck is the difference between the "Contract workers" (numbering some 15 thousand) in iraq and the Merc's who try to do a coup?
as I understand it (necessary caveat), the Contractors in the various dark places of the world are employees of large security firms, and have very set guidelines on what they can/cannot do. You're there to act as personal security for a VIP, or run convoy escort, or guard the ladies dorm room (I'm angling for that job, personally). That's it. You're licensed to carry firearms and take defensive actions against direct attacks on yourself and whomever you are responsible for. It's no different than many Security firms here, just infinitely more dangerous, requiring a higher calibre of training, motivation, and initiative.

The Mercs attempting to carry out a coup (for example) are entirely different. Contractors are operating within the laws of their home nations, and the nation they are in. These guys are operating outside any laws. They are no different than the 'narco-mercs' seen everywhere in South America and South-East Asia.

Does that help at all?
 
I think there are multiple forms of 'Mercenary' soldier. A contractor is a mercenary, as is a foreign aux. unit attached to an Army, as is a counter-revolutionary working for a foreign government (Contra Affair) or say paramilitaries working in South America for cartels/groups. Part of the confusion I believe comes from the negative connotation the word 'mercenary' has, and because of this, words like 'contractor' are used. I'll admit when I first read this thread I thought of the movie the "Wild Geese" and the mercenary force trying to topple an African government.

I don't think mercenaries are defined by how they are constituted either. Security firms involved in conflict can be considered mercenary, even if they are contractors with different rules and procedures. The firm in South Africa, Executive Outcomes, was from what I understand, a legitimate corporation up until several years back, that was made up of former South African Defense Forces personnel, and supposedly, financed by the DeBeers Diamond Corporation. 'Security Firm' just sounds nice, but I believe its all mercenary, there are just different degrees of involvement that distinguish a firm like EO compared to say a firm in Iraq.

I don't think a Canadian unit, paid by the Government, yet working under or for the UN, would be considered mercenary, as they would be following orders to serve the UN, and not voluntarily doing it for profit.
 
"to serve the UN"? And what, pray tell, makes the UN legally able to field armies? Canadian soldiers, whether under UN mandate, or not, are not mercenaries because we serve our nation, in uniform, as outlined by our legal process. Don't ever confuse the UN with being some sort of legalizing justification for anything. Canada does not have to answer to the UN in order to launch our military, and we do not have to respond to the UN when they ask us to.
And I, personally, have never served the UN. Nor will I ever. I will answer my country's call again, as I have in the past, but the UN can
actually, I won't finish that sentence.
 
'Serve' was a poor choice of words. I was trying to answer the initial question in the first post ("If you are sent to the Afghanistan to conduct security operations for the UN and are paid by the Canadian Government as a member of the CF; are you a Merc?")

'Conduct for' was what I should have said. All else agreed upon.
 
Mercenary is a soldier motivated money, serving outside of his national armed forces.

Of course, that has all sorts of problems. Basically, accept that being a mercenary is not a bad thing, despite the mis-informed views in the media.

The Vatican Guards are mercenaries, heirs of a long tradition when Switzerland had nothing to export but soldiers. The Gurkhas are mercenaries - the Gurkhas in the British Army, the Indian Army, the Brunei Army, and who work for Gurkha Security Guards. The french Foreign Legion are mercenaries (even tho most of them are Frenchmen - and I don't think the Spanish take foreigners anymore). The Commonwealth citizens in the British military could even be considered mercenaries. The soldiers (European and South African) who fought in the Congo against the UN were mercenaries. Executive Outcomes were mercenaries.

And the list goes on, and has all sorts of contradictions and confusions.

Its an ancient and honourable profession, with its bad apples just like any other group. The concept of a 'national army' and a national soldiery is a relatively recent concept, and has in recent history come into conflict with the parallel notion of the 'professional soldier'.

Since 1945, however, there was a definite move to make mercenaries illegal under international law - had a lot to do with the Colonial struggles, and various nationalist and socialist movements. Most nationalist struggles wanted to keep the professionals out of their wars, and most of the negative imagery of mercenaries came out of Africa between 1960's and 1980's. Hence, there are all sorts of provisions in international law banning mercenaries.

 
JasonH said:
Than you have the merc's who tried to do a coup in what was it... somewhere in Africa I think.

There's kinda been a lot.  Here's a few: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary#Mercenaries_in_Africa

Enfield said:
Its an ancient and honourable profession, with its bad apples just like any other group. The concept of a 'national army' and a national soldiery is a relatively recent concept, and has in recent history come into conflict with the parallel notion of the 'professional soldier'.

Since 1945, however, there was a definite move to make mercenaries illegal under international law - had a lot to do with the Colonial struggles, and various nationalist and socialist movements. Most nationalist struggles wanted to keep the professionals out of their wars, and most of the negative imagery of mercenaries came out of Africa between 1960's and 1980's. Hence, there are all sorts of provisions in international law banning mercenaries.

What if we look at it the other way: how is it that being a state (only) makes the use of force moral?

Here's an interesting idea (although it well could cause the statist do-gooders heads to explode):

Hired Guns
By Noah Shachtman Published  06/26/2003

A consortium of mercenary groups has made the UN a deceptively simple proposal: give us $200 million, and we'll help bring an end to the war in the Congo.

Tribal militias are running rampant in the eastern part of the central African nation, slaughtering hundreds of villagers at a time. Since 1998, the violence there has claimed 3.3 million lives.

The world's response has been, to say the least, underwhelming. A few thousand UN peacekeeping troops have been stationed there since 2001. But these brave souls watched helplessly last month as the militias murdered 430 innocents in the provincial capital of Bunia.

The killings shamed the European Union into sending 1,400 French and British soldiers into the area. But they'll operate only in Bunia -- no matter how bloody things turn in the countryside. And on September 1, the troops are going home. End of story.

What happens then? The UN Security Council is trying to decide that now. An unusual suggestion has come from the International Peace Operations Association (IPOA), an association a private military companies. They won't stand in between the warring armies. But for $100-$200 million, five such contractors could form a rapid reaction force, to combat the militias' mass rape and ethnic cleansing; train the local police force; provide logistics for UN operations in the area; and use aerial surveillance to keep tabs on the region.

"It's a novel concept. And certain aspects deserved to be implemented ASAP," said Peter Singer, a Brookings Institution scholar and author of the recently-published Corporate Warriors: The Rise of the Privatized Military Industry. "But the proposal needs to be fleshed out much further before it can be taken seriously. What is the chain of command? Who decides when to deploy this rapid reaction force? How do we ensure accountability, and how do we make it workable under international law?"

For the moment, the UN Security isn't even bothering to consider such questions, as it ponders its next move in the Congo. They won't even talk to the IPOA, its president, Doug Brooks, said.

But there aren't that many other options on the table for the Congo.

"I cannot -- and don't know anyone else who does -- support a private military solution," said Peter Gantz, with the Partnership for Effective Peace Operations, a coalition of think tanks and aid groups. "But it's hard to dismiss, in the absence on any other credible solution."

"It's the only thing that might be successful," he added.

The private military firms making the offer have had a jumbled history: stunning successes, and awful failures. In 1996, Liberian rebels sacked the capital city, Monrovia. ICI of Oregon, employing Soviet Red Army veterans and former US special forces, helped save the American embassy there. Battlefield consultants MPRI (Military Professionals Resources Inc.) helped turned the Croatian army from a "group of drunken militias" into a force capable of a "multi-arm, NATO-style offensive," Singer said. The attack turned the tide of the Balkan conflict. But it was "one of the worst episodes of 'ethnic cleansing,' an event that left more than 100,000 homeless," according to the New York Times.

Airscan, a Florida-based aerial surveillance firm, has kept watch over NASA space launches. But, in Colombia, company employees mistakenly told government pilots that a village was filled with FARC guerillas. The area was bombed. No rebels were there, however. Instead, 18 civilians died.

With such a mixed record, Singer isn't sure he's comfortable giving these corporate guns-for-hire the authority to pull the trigger in the Congo. The companies say they'll employ for their rapid reaction force 475 to 1200 British-trained Gurkha fighters from Nepal -- guys with a seriously bad-ass reputation. But it's unclear who would command the mercenaries. And what happens, Singer asks in the latest issue of Policy Review, if corporate interests and humanitarian interests begin to divide?

Security is now at the mercy of any change in market costs and incentives... A firm hired to establish a safe haven might later find the situation more difficult than it originally expected. The operation might become unprofitable or, due to any increase in local opposition, more dangerous than anticipated. Thus, the company could find it in its corporate interest to pull out. Or, even if the company is kept in line by market constraints, its employees might decide that the personal risks they face in sticking it out in an operation are too high relative to their pay. Not bound by military law, they can simply break their contracts without fear of punishment and find safer, better paying work elsewhere.

A better, safer idea, Singer believes, is to let the private military groups handle logistics and transport. For years, contractors like ICI have been carrying out these duties for armies around the world -- including our own. It may be time, he thinks, to give the firms a chance in the Congo.
 
Great thread thus far and has made me understand this name more.  Thank you!  :salute:

And on a side note I think we're seeing the first seeds of Privatized military.  Look at all the contracts being handed out to places like Blackwater.  Over 15 plus thousand contractors are in Iraq right now alone.  And with high wages more and more troops are leaving the army and Special Forces (JTF-2 has had this problem documented).

What do you guys think?
 
I'm just pissed the US State Dept stopped letting Canadians work in their contracts...

The problem with Iraq and Afghan - is thet the US in running the war "on the cheaper" as far as deployed personnel go.   In addtion they are trying to rapidly restart the countries gov't and economy - thus needing thousands of armed security personnel for those tasks.

Having taken PSD training I can tell you the basic troop is not cut out for those duties (heck half of them I would not trust with weapons aroudn VIP's...) so you have a niche that needs to be filled.   When you combine that with soldiers who are not paid a lot, and now can get a LOT of money and conduct a mission that they can be proud of, and know it is required.

For example I have a few buddies in Iraq - makign anywhere from $450 USD to $950USD a DAY.   Now if you avg it oout to $700 a day your gettign about 21K USD TAX FREE a month - depending upon the companies employment/leave plan you can bank about 100k working 4 months with a 2month vacation...

Now whats not to like   ;D

Here's where I mention that some companies don't have medical support form the US Mil hospitals...   Some run soft skin vehicles.   Some hire VERY strange people. etc.

Anyway here a link to Triple Canopy one of the good US companies (unfortunately they can't hire anymore Canadians due to their State Dept contracts)

   http://www.triplecanopy.com/company/careers/open.php

 
paracowboy said:
"to serve the UN"? And what, pray tell, makes the UN legally able to field armies? Canadian soldiers, whether under UN mandate, or not, are not mercenaries because we serve our nation, in uniform, as outlined by our legal process. Don't ever confuse the UN with being some sort of legalizing justification for anything. Canada does not have to answer to the UN in order to launch our military, and we do not have to respond to the UN when they ask us to.

Although Canadians serving on UN Tours are paid primarily by the Canadian Government, they are also drawing a meager pay from the UN.  While on a UN Tour, those troops DO take orders from the UN.

Canadian soldiers Overseas Allowances and Danger Pays, etc., are also indexed.  In many cases those allowances increase with the amount of time one has spent outside of Canada.  With all the inquiries on these forums by young recruits wanting to go on 'Tour', then in a way, this is indeed 'mercenary'.
 
George Wallace said:
Canadian soldiers Overseas Allowances and Danger Pays, etc., are also indexed.   In many cases those allowances increase with the amount of time one has spent outside of Canada.   With all the inquiries on these forums by young recruits wanting to go on 'Tour', then in a way, this is indeed 'mercenary'.

Not to mention as soon the CF heard about the tax breaks now - a lot of "deadwood" came back to life looking to go overseas... Its amazing what an extra $3k a month will do for the motivation level  ::)
 
Although Canadians serving on UN Tours are paid primarily by the Canadian Government, they are also drawing a meager pay from the UN.
I know, I've received that pay.
While on a UN Tour, those troops DO take orders from the UN.
No, we take orders form Ottawa. If our UN-designated overlord says "Do this", but Ottawa says "Don't", we don't. Often embarrassing the holy livin' bejaysus out of the line grunt, as he waves bye-bye to the Brit soldier he spent days training beside. (Yes, there's a story there, yes, I'm bitter about it.)

Canadian soldiers Overseas Allowances and Danger Pays, etc., are also indexed.  In many cases those allowances increase with the amount of time one has spent outside of Canada.  With all the inquiries on these forums by young recruits wanting to go on 'Tour', then in a way, this is indeed 'mercenary'.
yes, we get extra pay, and it goes up exponentially. How-some-ever, even if we didn't receive these little tidbits, and the High-and-Mighty Potentates in Parliament ordered us in, in we would go. A merc would say "nope. And have another beer. We are Canadian citizens serving Canada under Her flag. Thus and therefore, we ain't mercs. (Now, I ain't denying that some amongst us have mercenary inclinations: the number of supposed 'broken' personnel that showed up for Roto 0 Kabul was mind-boggling. It was as though Jesus himself had walked through Petawawa healing the lame! Rather despicable, really. And I certainly enjoy that extra coin when I get to go, and it does factor into my willingness to put up with having an equal number of Captains to Corporals, but that's not why I go.)

Now, will I go free-lance when my 20 is up (or when m'dear, darlin' little wife realizes she can do better and dumps my chubby ass)? Oh, hell yeah!
 
But then don't the reserves kind of fit into the mercenary description? They get to choose the tasking to take or not to take and they get to choose the contracts and tours.
 
Doesn't the definition of mercenary require that you are a Canadian serving in another nation's armed forces?  PSD companies are not armies, they are not in Iraq to fight the war, or  conduct offensive operations,  how would employment in a PSD company make you a mercenary?
 
Britney Spears said:
Doesn't the definition of mercenary require that you are a Canadian serving in another nation's armed forces?   PSD companies are not armies, they are not in Iraq to fight the war, or   conduct offensive operations,   how would employment in a PSD company make you a mercenary?

BINGO!


I never knew you where so smart Brit, are you sure those are blonde roots   ;D
 
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