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What is up with all these CTs??

DirtyDog

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Can someone explain to me why it is very well qualified and experienced people are sitting around here as Coporals for years because we're being told just how overmanned we are, especially at the junior NCO level, yet all of these reservists come waltzing in taking these spots?

It is getting ridiculous around here and people are starting to lose their minds.  I don't want to bash reservists as whole, but a lot of these people coming in, in my experience, would make good privates... maybe.  It's a joke that leadership qualified, combat experienced troops who have been promised promotion for years, are now all of sudden supposed to take orders from these people.  It is becoming a real problem around here.  Not to fault the individuals either, although some of them don't seem to realise just how lacking they are.

My career is shifting gears shortly, and this won't directly affect me anymore, but I am extremely curious as to what's going on, as are a lot of other people who's opinion is that this is another factor that seems to be undoing the integrity of our Army.
 

Remius

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Well I can't speak as to where you are or what you are seeing but...

Full time reserve service has been cut drastically and other employment oprions are very limited as it stands elsewhere (ie the Public Service).  Essentially they are taking the advice several regular force members provided in the form of "if you want to work full-time go reg force".  So some are.  Some can't because CTs aren't exactly being processed because as you stated, we are overmanned in some trades.

I happen to know a few CTs that were reservists with multiple tours, are leadership qualified and make fine leaders.  I also happen to know a Reguar force Captain wearing the same cap badge as you that would make a fine 2Lt...maybe.

It could be that the system has a shortage of some ranks in some trades and it is is a quick fix to fill those spots.  risk management andf hoping that the adaptation period isn't too long.

Or maybe you just got junk.  It happens from time to time.
 

DirtyDog

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We are getting a lot of the junk it seems, but some of them just don't have the leadership presence or experience to step into these roles.  I'm not saying all reservist NCOs are garbage, nor that all of the one that are CTing are.  The fact that even ONE of them is, is a slap in the face of the guys who have been waiting patiently around here for promotion only to have a part-timer walk into it.  And yes, that not to say we've had some garbage get promoted over deserving people either...

However, I just don't understand it.  We (RCR) have been told of the huge bottle necks at MCpl and Sgt and how promotions will (and have) been drastically down the last few years.  Yet there's been nearly a dozen CT into those spots in our 1 unit alone.  Where's the logic?

 

Fishbone Jones

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DirtyDog said:
We are getting a lot of the junk it seems, but some of them just don't have the leadership presence or experience to step into these roles.  I'm not saying all reservist NCOs are garbage, nor that all of the one that are CTing are.  The fact that even ONE of them is, is a slap in the face of the guys who have been waiting patiently around here for promotion only to have a part-timer walk into it.  And yes, that not to say we've had some garbage get promoted over deserving people either...

However, I just don't understand it.  We (RCR) have been told of the huge bottle necks at MCpl and Sgt and how promotions will (and have) been drastically down the last few years.  Yet there's been nearly a dozen CT into those spots in our 1 unit alone.  Where's the logic?

Why not ask your highers? They're the ones that are asking for and accepting them.

Sounds like an in house problem with your own outfit.
 

Fishbone Jones

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Haven't heard any other complaints. The CT's to different trades, that I know, are doing well at their new jobs and appear to be appreciated by their units.

I see by your profile that you have 5 years in.

Would you, by chance, be one of these leadership qualified Cpls that feel they are being overlooked?
 

DirtyDog

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recceguy said:
Haven't heard any other complaints. The CT's to different trades, that I know, are doing well at their new jobs and appear to be appreciated by their units.

I see by your profile that you have 5 years in.

Would you, by chance, be one of these leadership qualified Cpls that feel they are being overlooked?
Nope.  Infact, there's people around that might feel the same way about me since I was DAPed almost 3 years ago.  This isn't about me, or a few disgruntled Coporals.  It makes no sense when we have a lot of deserving people around who are being told the ranks are full, yet we're bringing in all these people from the outside.
 

Jarnhamar

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DirtyDog said:
Can someone explain to me why it is very well qualified and experienced people are sitting around here as Coporals for years because we're being told just how overmanned we are, especially at the junior NCO level, yet all of these reservists come waltzing in taking these spots?

It is getting ridiculous around here and people are starting to lose their minds.  I don't want to bash reservists as whole, but a lot of these people coming in, in my experience, would make good privates... maybe.  It's a joke that leadership qualified, combat experienced troops who have been promised promotion for years, are now all of sudden supposed to take orders from these people.  It is becoming a real problem around here.  Not to fault the individuals either, although some of them don't seem to realise just how lacking they are.

My career is shifting gears shortly, and this won't directly affect me anymore, but I am extremely curious as to what's going on, as are a lot of other people who's opinion is that this is another factor that seems to be undoing the integrity of our Army.

The CT process doesn't identify people as junk or not.  The army probably has some kind of number where X% of reservists are accepted at rank in the reg force.

How about the reg force MCpls that go from sick chit to sick chit, or apply for every Bn team that gets them out of regular duties.

It IS strange that there are tons of mod 6 qualified Cpls sitting around waiting for promotion with no promotion in sight who are already doing the job of section commanders- only to have a reservist MCpl slide in.  It's no more strange than the infantry "being overmanned" yet platoons are still understrength and it's not uncommon to find 2 MCpls and 2 cpls doing sections attack cause that' all they have.

Same story when reg force guys were missing out on tours because the CF decided 20% of the troops going over would be reservists.
 

DirtyDog

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ObedientiaZelum said:
The CT process doesn't identify people as junk or not.  The army probably has some kind of number where X% of reservists are accepted at rank in the reg force.

How about the reg force MCpls that go from sick chit to sick chit, or apply for every Bn team that gets them out of regular duties.

It IS strange that there are tons of mod 6 qualified Cpls sitting around waiting for promotion with no promotion in sight who are already doing the job of section commanders- only to have a reservist MCpl slide in.  It's no more strange than the infantry "being overmanned" yet platoons are still understrength and it's not uncommon to find 2 MCpls and 2 cpls doing sections attack cause that' all they have.

Same story when reg force guys were missing out on tours because the CF decided 20% of the troops going over would be reservists.
Yeah, yeah.  I get all that.  We all know there's way too many maligningering pieces of crap around, but the issue is these guys coming in when there is absolutely no need and it is screwing over top notch people.
 

wo2kehler

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This is not just a RCR issue.. This has affected the RCD's as well. There are many unqualified MCpls coming into the regiment, and who consistenly fail ARCC and are retaining their rank. Majority of them have no tours, and not much more to offer.

I cant say its necessarily their fault; They were put in a position they were clearly not ready for. But it has caused a large enough burden on promotions. We now have many ARCC qualified Cpls unable to be promoted, and on the flip side have many Cpls ready to go on ARCC who cant because unqualified MCpls need to be given there second or third chance. There are three people alone I know of personally just in one squadron of 90 personal. You cant say that isnt a huge burden

The worst part is, when this MCpls fail ARCC, or refuse to go on it again, they are still holding on to their leafs. I dont know if this is a Regt issue or a career manager issue, but its a huge waste either way.

It seems the army is wasting a great opportunity  to capitalize on the knowledge that Afghanistan has created. While having a tour doesnt make you the end all, it does prove that you have what it takes to be a soldier and proves your dedication majority of the time. But the failure of the army to take advantage of this (whither they can or can not I dont know) is definitely going to cause a brain drain. I know of many strong leaders and soldiers who are tired of waiting.  Many fear what promotions were like in the 1990's and are taking this time to OT or leave the army all together.

 

Jarnhamar

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I'd say there is still a need. The top notch people are also leaving for
CSOR
JTF2
JTFX
CJIRU
Recce, sniper pl

What I don't understand is why doesn't the CF take MORE CTs.  There's a lot of reservist Cpls with 5 to 10 years of TI plus tours who want to join the battalions. That seems a lot better than training up a pte from scratch.
 

wo2kehler

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Id say that any of the switched on reservists with strong leadership skills and tour experience are already gainfully employed and I cant imagine they have any reason to leave.

I know that all of the reservists I had on tour, all of them are doing fairly well civi side, and have had no reason to come over to the reg force.

 
A

aesop081

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ObedientiaZelum said:
That seems a lot better than training up a pte from scratch.

On the surface, yes. But you are then full of guys that you will have for 5-10 years less. The long term health of the CF require that we get a pretty constant stream of young, off the street recruits we can have for 25 years or more.
 

PPCLI Guy

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DirtyDog said:
However, I just don't understand it.  We (RCR) have been told of the huge bottle necks at MCpl and Sgt and how promotions will (and have) been drastically down the last few years.  Yet there's been nearly a dozen CT into those spots in our 1 unit alone.  Where's the logic?

The bottleneck is real , and it will last at least three years.  The three Reg Force infantry regiments are dramatically out of whack, and yet the overall trade is overborne.  If we were to split the PML in three vice treating it as corps wide, the rough numbers are 1900 PPCLI, 2400 R22eR and 2600 RCR.  The numbers are even more out of whack at the Sgt and WO level.  The Corps has decided to rebalance, and to essentially split the PML in three.  This will be done over a three year period (one of the COAs was to simply rebadge 40 RCR WOs to rebalance, which was discarded for a bunch of good reasons).  The Strategic Intake Plan (SIP) has been adjusted so that more of the new blood goes to the West, and I have heard that promotions and career course loading will now be very carefully tracked.

CTs are part of that SIP.  The ones arriving now and recentky were accepted under the old SIP, before the reqalignment or rebalancing started.
 

GnyHwy

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HULK_011 said:
Many fear what promotions were like in the 1990's and are taking this time to OT or leave the army all together.

I hope we have learned from those days and don't totally revert back to them, although it will likely be close to that.  The 90s was my generation, a bunch of keen bombers that knew there was no promotions.  Many OT'd or got out, and those of us who didn't just hoped we got our leaf before our CD.  I have seen more than a few excellent soldiers receive their leaf right around the same time they got their CD.

Back to OP.  This reminds me of a Bosnia tour we did a bunch of years ago where we asked for x amount of MBdrs, 4 or 5 if I remember correctly.  The reserves complied and sent us 5 MBdrs.  With that and because we asked for MBdrs, they retained their rank; even after we found out a couple were unsuitable.  In fact, one specifically that I can remember, was doing a job that I would normally ask of a Gnr or weak Bdr.

Just so it doesn't seem that I am giving the reg force a free ride in this discussion.  I have seen plenty of guys promoted to MBdr with 3-5 years that are very limited, and wouldn't even have made the merit 15 years ago.

While it is unfortunate that deserving folks may miss out, and we may lose them because of it.  From my years in, and my experience, shit happens, and eventhough some may be held back a year or two, in the end and down the road, a year or two doesn't mean much.   
 

DirtyDog

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ObedientiaZelum said:
I'd say there is still a need. The top notch people are also leaving for
CSOR
JTF2
JTFX
CJIRU
Recce, sniper pl

What I don't understand is why doesn't the CF take MORE CTs.  There's a lot of reservist Cpls with 5 to 10 years of TI plus tours who want to join the battalions. That seems a lot better than training up a pte from scratch.
Not all the best people are leaving for those places, but stuff like this is definitely helping to drive more of them away.

I agree.  I'd have no problem with more CTs... at the Cpl level.
 

DirtyDog

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PPCLI Guy said:
The bottleneck is real , and it will last at least three years.  The three Reg Force infantry regiments are dramatically out of whack, and yet the overall trade is overborne.  If we were to split the PML in three vice treating it as corps wide, the rough numbers are 1900 PPCLI, 2400 R22eR and 2600 RCR.  The numbers are even more out of whack at the Sgt and WO level.  The Corps has decided to rebalance, and to essentially split the PML in three.  This will be done over a three year period (one of the COAs was to simply rebadge 40 RCR WOs to rebalance, which was discarded for a bunch of good reasons).  The Strategic Intake Plan (SIP) has been adjusted so that more of the new blood goes to the West, and I have heard that promotions and career course loading will now be very carefully tracked.

CTs are part of that SIP.  The ones arriving now and recentky were accepted under the old SIP, before the reqalignment or rebalancing started.
These people are arriving now or have recently.  Is the system that far behind?

We keep hearing how overborne we are, yet I've spent the last year in a Pl with 2 Snr NCOs and a couple of MCpls.  Where are all the NCOs?  JPSU?
 

Fishbone Jones

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This is starting to become another 'Us vs Them' thread.

Look, most Reservists were offered that CT, by the Reg force, especially during or after tours.

The Reg Force accepted them and put the conditions in place.

It's not the Reservists fault for believing the promises or accepting the contract offered to them.

You're blaming the wrong people.
 

Ralph

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CTs are showing up more quickly because the admin gods are working through each trade. Mine opened up a couple months ago.
The program to allow PRes with op experience into the Reg F at their reservist rank ended several months ago. If you didn't cross over before, you're no longer getting your rank automatically.
Finally, the failure is not with the system. It's with unit leadership, if they can't make the time or effort to take a good hard look at an incoming CT and determine whether he should command immediately, or whether he needs to be 2IC of the Q or something else suitable off the front line until he's ready to be in charge.
 

PPCLI Guy

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DirtyDog said:
These people are arriving now or have recently.  Is the system that far behind?

We keep hearing how overborne we are, yet I've spent the last year in a Pl with 2 Snr NCOs and a couple of MCpls.  Where are all the NCOs?  JPSU?

That is actually the $64,000 question, and one the Corps is trying to come to grips with. 9% of all badged Royals are in SOFCOM for instance - and they are held against Corps numbers.
 
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