Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?

[Fishbone Jones]

I doubt local law enforcement would be approaching the Legion about Blue, Red or White Knights.

The problem I have will most of these 'enthusiast' groups is many of their aspects ('three piece rocker' patch, Harley only rules, etc.) seem to go out of their way to mimic OMGs. Apparently Veterans MC in BC have been under surveillance for a while for ties to HA.

I said nothing about local LE. Nor did I say anything about the Blue Knights being discussed by LE to owners. There's no doubt bad apples, whether a single veteran joining an OMG or an organised group of Veterans being a farm club for OMG. However, I think trying to place every riding club into a pigeon hole of OMGs is wrong. That's all I've been saying.


Lots of groups use a 3 piece rocker.


Are these guys trying to imitate an OMG?

Look, neither of us want OMGs in the Legion. But your broad brush descriptions are unfair. There's lots of information contained in the insignia and patches if you know what you're looking at.

 

[markppcli]

I said nothing about local LE. Nor did I say anything about the Blue Knights being discussed by LE to owners. There's no doubt bad apples, whether a single veteran joining an OMG or an organised group of Veterans being a farm club for OMG. However, I think trying to place every riding club into a pigeon hole of OMGs is wrong. That's all I've been saying.


Lots of groups use a 3 piece rocker.

View attachment 88953
Are these guys trying to imitate an OMG?

Look, neither of us want OMGs in the Legion. But your broad brush descriptions are unfair. There's lots of information contained in the insignia and patches if you know what you're looking at.

I think you’re obsessing about the details and loosing the larger picture. Pretty obviously no one is looking at Blue Knights and thinking they’re involved in criminal enterprises. The line gets a little fuzzier at other groups. Do the blue knights were a three piece patch? Sure, but I think we know why those rules don’t apply to them compared to other bike clubs.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I think you’re obsessing about the details and loosing the larger picture. Pretty obviously no one is looking at Blue Knights and thinking they’re involved in criminal enterprises. The line gets a little fuzzier at other groups. Do the blue knights were a three piece patch? Sure, but I think we know why those rules don’t apply to them compared to other bike clubs.

I'm not obsessing. I asked a simple question and got jumped on over things I never said. Then some generalizations were made by someone else. Again, not what I said or asked. Someone decided to go into the weeds, so I decided to point out some facts. Things I know from personal experience. I simply brought up the Blue Knights as a club that wore a 3 piece rocker and therefore met the original example posited by someone else, but weren't an OMG. The point being a 3 piece rocker doesn't make a club an OMG. I'm more than happy to let things go, so long as people stop putting words in my mouth and introducing things that had nothing to do with my original question. This whole thing went off the rails because I asked what club got the branch shut down. All of a sudden I'm being told they are selling drugs to my kids or assuming the club was an OMG. Which was why I asked my original question, which has yet to be answered. However, because people cannot answer a simple question without jumping to conclusions and tearing off on a tangent, I accept I won't get a proper answer without a lot of useless shit being brought into the conversation. I withdraw.

 

[Jarnhamar]

If only the legions actually assisted Canadians with "to never forget". Instead, we have schools who want to ban uniforms at Remembrance day ceremonies.

N.S. school apologizes for asking service members not to wear uniforms at Remembrance Day ceremony

That moron school is the result of buzzword diversity being divest of common sense. Wait until white people are asked to remain at home so they don't upset new Canadians.


As for the Legion assisting Canadians remembering, I'd offer Canadians should have an expectation and obligation to take it upon themselves to do a little remembering.

The Legion has a few more seldom discussed areas they help veterans and veterans families with such as:

-assistance dealing with VAC
-adjusting to civilian life
-financial problems
-homelessness
-support for families
-support for seniors
-peer support
-veterans living abroad
-replacing lost medals and records
-funerals and burials

 

[The Bread Guy]

Wonder how many people are actually getting their poppies or other merch via Amazon?

The Royal Canadian Legion turns to Amazon for annual poppy campaign boost

The Royal Canadian Legion says a new partnership with e-commerce giant Amazon is helping boost its veterans' fund, and will hopefully expand its donor base in the digital world.

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

The Royal Canadian Legion

The Royal Canadian Legion Poppies and More, Royal Canadian Legion Remembrance Poppies, Gifts, Lapel Pins, Accessories

www.amazon.ca

Here's hoping Bezos & Co. aren't taking a cut.

 

[lenaitch]

I'm not obsessing. I asked a simple question and got jumped on over things I never said. Then some generalizations were made by someone else. Again, not what I said or asked. Someone decided to go into the weeds, so I decided to point out some facts. Things I know from personal experience. I simply brought up the Blue Knights as a club that wore a 3 piece rocker and therefore met the original example posited by someone else, but weren't an OMG. The point being a 3 piece rocker doesn't make a club an OMG. I'm more than happy to let things go, so long as people stop putting words in my mouth and introducing things that had nothing to do with my original question. This whole thing went off the rails because I asked what club got the branch shut down. All of a sudden I'm being told they are selling drugs to my kids or assuming the club was an OMG. Which was why I asked my original question, which has yet to be answered. However, because people cannot answer a simple question without jumping to conclusions and tearing off on a tangent, I accept I won't get a proper answer without a lot of useless shit being brought into the conversation. I withdraw.

Maybe we're talking past each other, I don't know how to write or you don't know how to read, but here is the original post I responded to:

How ironic. They've been complaining for years about dwindling membership and loss of branches. Then they arbitrarily shut one down over people wearing colors in the branch. Before getting to crazy, I'd like to know what patch was being worn and if the wearers were Veterans. I quit the Lesion after 37 years over the petty bullshit and civilian infiltration in board activities, all the way up to the skiving prick civvies in Dominion Command. I'll wager just about none of those members transfer or renew their memberships. Another nail in the Lesion coffin.

First, I suspect the decision was anything but "arbitrary". The notice posted by the Legion and linked earlier used the phrase "overt association with outlaw motorcycle groups" . A reasonable interpretation might be that the relationship was more than "wearing colors in the branch". When your clubhouse becomes their clubhouse, you become part of the legal problem.

Too many people buy into the myth that the OMGs are just misunderstood motorcycle enthusiasts trying to make their way in a cruel world. Perhaps I wrongly assumed that you were of that ilk with my 'drug dealer' comment.

If you really, really want to know what the colours were, I suppose you could reach out to Provincial or Dominion command; don't bother calling the cops, they won't tell you and I suspect the Legion will be the same. To be clear, I do not know.

As an aside, I don't agree with the Blue Knights or any other enthusiast club using a three piece rocker. I honestly don't think they are trying to mimic an OMG; it just strikes me as not great marketting. I ride a Harley; I don't wear leather.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Maybe we're talking past each other, I don't know how to write or you don't know how to read, but here is the original post I responded to:


First, I suspect the decision was anything but "arbitrary". The notice posted by the Legion and linked earlier used the phrase "overt association with outlaw motorcycle groups" . A reasonable interpretation might be that the relationship was more than "wearing colors in the branch". When your clubhouse becomes their clubhouse, you become part of the legal problem.

Too many people buy into the myth that the OMGs are just misunderstood motorcycle enthusiasts trying to make their way in a cruel world. Perhaps I wrongly assumed that you were of that ilk with my 'drug dealer' comment.

If you really, really want to know what the colours were, I suppose you could reach out to Provincial or Dominion command; don't bother calling the cops, they won't tell you and I suspect the Legion will be the same. To be clear, I do not know.

As an aside, I don't agree with the Blue Knights or any other enthusiast club using a three piece rocker. I honestly don't think they are trying to mimic an OMG; it just strikes me as not great marketting. I ride a Harley; I don't wear leather.

I'm more than aware what consitutes an OMG. Trust me.
I'm not adding anything else to this tangent. I closed off my comments already.

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

The Legion has to envolve with the times.
There is a lot of trust issues with phony veterans and phony awards be worn and accepted by the Legion.

Next problem is some local branches do not have any veterans and the civilies run the show and never worn the uniform and do not understand how the military worked or what the needs of a veteran might be.

The non veteran members treat the legion like a private club and treat visiting veterans like intruders in their private club.
I know this is not all legions but this how is the local legion treats people.
Newer combat vets are treated badly because the branch does not remember their role in the life of the veteran.

It was suppose to be a support and a place where fellow vets could talk, cry, console and help other vets with coping skills because they understood what the other guy has gone thru and is going thru.

The properties are draining the local memberships of funds, and draining funds from their community goals.

Time to reinvent itself

The HQ in Ottawa is up forsale because they cannot afford it any more

 

[dapaterson]

The HQ in Ottawa is up forsale because they cannot afford it any more

Incorrect. The downtown Ottawa Legion location is for sale; the HQ (located in the western Ottawa suburb of Kanata) is not.

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

Incorrect. The downtown Ottawa Legion location is for sale; the HQ (located in the western Ottawa suburb of Kanata) is not.

the story I read was the HQ in the Kanata. my mistake I accept the correction

 

[Jarnhamar]

Next problem is some local branches do not have any veterans and the civilies run the show and never worn the uniform and do not understand how the military worked or what the needs of a veteran might be.

Just to play devils advocate, why is this a problem?

The non veteran members treat the legion like a private club and treat visiting veterans like intruders in their private club.

When it comes to drinking at the legion bar, it is a private club. They're not obligated to let visiting non-member use their drinking facilities.

 

[markppcli]

Just to play devils advocate, why is this a problem?

Because those are the people, largely, who’ve made the legion unwelcoming for newer veterans.

When it comes to drinking at the legion bar, it is a private club. They're not obligated to let visiting non-member use their drinking facilities.

Then they should advertise as a privates members club as opposed to claiming their primary purpose is to support veterans.

 

[lenaitch]

Because those are the people, largely, who’ve made the legion unwelcoming for newer veterans.


Then they should advertise as a privates members club as opposed to claiming their primary purpose is to support veterans.

In Ontario, the legal concept of 'private club' went out the window several years ago in terms of alcohol sales in their canteens. Obviously, other provinces may vary. I'll bet a lot of branches' bylaws haven't been updated in quite a while. Most if not all still ask you to sign in; I'm not sure what would happen if you refused. They could try and 'trespass' you if they really cared but I doubt it.

As far as I know, Legion membership is wide open now. Its primary purpose may be to support vets but that is distinct from alcohol sales (in Ontario). They can still have members-only events.

 

[daftandbarmy]

It sounds like the Langford Legion has a good setup. Quite the story too....

Missions accomplished: Now 102, bomber pilot has no idea how he made it back alive​

Don Nixon vividly recalls each of the 35 missions he flew over Nazi-occupied Holland and France, as well as Germany’s Ruhr Valley — including many close calls

Missions accomplished: Now 102, bomber pilot has no idea how he made it back alive

Don Nixon vividly recalls each of the 35 missions he flew over Nazi-occupied Holland and France, as well as Germany’s Ruhr Valley — including many close calls

www.timescolonist.com

 

[mariomike]

In Ontario, the legal concept of 'private club' went out the window several years ago in terms of alcohol sales in their canteens. Obviously, other provinces may vary. I'll bet a lot of branches' bylaws haven't been updated in quite a while. Most if not all still ask you to sign in; I'm not sure what would happen if you refused. They could try and 'trespass' you if they really cared but I doubt it.

As far as I know, Legion membership is wide open now. Its primary purpose may be to support vets but that is distinct from alcohol sales (in Ontario). They can still have members-only events.

I think they can smoke on uncovered patios, but not in the clubhouse.

Not sure how strict they are about enforcement.

• smoke on all bar and restaurant patios, whether covered or not (with an exemption for uncovered patios established by the Royal Canadian Legion - Ontario Provincial Command before November 18, 2013)

 

[Rifleman62]

Nothing like a Legion Sergeant of Arms, who never served, fooling with a drill cane.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Because those are the people, largely, who’ve made the legion unwelcoming for newer veterans.

Vets going to the Legion expecting the same kind of comradery as they would find in a drinking mess are setting themselves up for disappointment. Same goes with the expetction of how the Legion operated 50 years ago.

The Legion was taken over by civilians out of necessity. It's logical the atmosphere is going follow suit and may not be overly welcoming to veterans. I'm not sure if the "rude Legion civilian" is the exception or the norm. In my experience it's by far the exception.

Ultimately Legion staff don't need to have military experience to provide their services to vets and their families. If you absolutely needed $400 to pay your rent or get evicted, I could get that to you via the Legion (very likely from a staff member who is a civilian) in a day or two. And I'm in no way a Legion member.
The drinking at the bar part is a very small part of the larger picture. Unfortunately I think many people only see that aspect of them.