Who uses the 5.7mm ammo?

[KevinB]

Yeah I must admit I've only seen a few of them.
  I took a look at one outside the Supreme store in Kabul (he was interested in the 9mm Hollowpoint (147gr HydraShok - DoS issue) that came out of my Glock19 at the clearing barrel.  I dont like bullpups from the ergonomic standpoint and was underwhelmed by the SA80A2 improvements - their SF is still using the L119A1 (C8SFW with a beefed up frontsigth gasblock due to the HK UGL) and the Sig552 - so I dont think it has all the cinks worked out -- but damn in a vehicle it would be easy to use...

 

[COBRA-6]

I took a look at one outside the Supreme store in Kabul (he was interested in the 9mm Hollowpoint (147gr HydraShok - DoS issue) that came out of my Glock19 at the clearing barrel. 

Gotta love supermarkets with clearing barrels... like going shopping in Compton!  ;D

 

[KevinB]

I always get upset at people who make me clear - I dont clear at the Embassy, I dont clear when I visit Duey, I dont clear at the ISAF Bazarre -- WHY do I have to clear to go shopping (well perhaps Supreme's outright theft pricing makes them expect a hit?).

 

[NATO Boy]

Geez... I'd never seen that before, and after your post I googled it. after wading through four pages of airsoft results I found a British army discussion site with a picture of the thing- looks like they took the L85 down to bare minimum. Seems like it would be a pretty good compromize for PDW in a rifle chambering...

Is this it?

 

[KevinB]

Yes.

  Some have the SUSAT interface milled off and a piece of Picatinny rail added for the use of a CCO.

 

[NATO Boy]

Cool....but I suspect an bullpup this "compact" must really need a counter-weight for stable fire (like the ones in the front handguard of the full L85.)

 

[Armymatters]

The HK G36C fulfills the same roll as the the L85 carbine... its only 720mm in length stock extended, and carries over the reliability of HK weaponry, especially of the G36 series. It only has open sights, but it has a rail interface. The thing is only 2 inches longer than a regular MP5 or UMP submachine gun. Fires the standard NATO 5.56mm ammuntion, but I expect with rifles this size that there is a range and exit velocity penalty when firing rifle ammunition in a gun the size of a submachine gun.

 

[COBRA-6]

I always get upset at people who make me clear - I dont clear at the Embassy, I dont clear when I visit Duey, I dont clear at the ISAF Bazarre -- WHY do I have to clear to go shopping (well perhaps Supreme's outright theft pricing makes them expect a hit?).

Maybe someone will knock them off Bagram style  ;D

With all the ND's some of the multinationals have, I can understand the policy. Nothing like a burst of MG fire from inside the camp to wake you up in the morning... 

 

[gottyfunk]

Ok so here it goes i ve found the article in SWAT magizine Jan 2006 ....The U.S sercret service has addopted the P90 and was evaluating the fiveseveN. The article was in regards to recomendations that the secret service submited to modify the fiveseveN to there specs and possible adoption. 

 

[KevinB]

:
G36C is a POS - there is a reason the Norwegian SF dropped it and even the German KSK have been seen running with Diemaco C8SFW's...  The only Hk system goign anywhere these days is the Hk416 and 417...

gottyfunk - beleive what you want, I work for US DoS, none of the USSS guys I've rubbed shoulders with have P90's or use 5.7. 
 

Mike - I see your point on that - but I'm in the few catagory that are hot 100% and dont have to unload across where I go - so why do I have to unload at a Supermarket????
  When I was here as a CF soldier we had a US Army unit do 4 rds Mk19 warning into the Hesco at Phoenix...

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Kev,
  Think the KSK will switch over to the HK416/417?

 

[Falco]

Pictures are worth 1000 words.

WASHINGTON, UNITED STATES: A member of the US Secret Service Emergency Response Team (ERT) stands his post on the White House grounds 19 January 2005. US President George W. Bush will be sworn in to his second term in office 20 January amid unprecedented security. AFP Photo/Paul J. RICHARDS (Photo credit should read PAUL J.RICHARDS/AFP/Getty Images)

WASHINGTON - DECEMBER 1: A member of the U.S. Secret Service, carrying a submachine gun, patrols the North Lawn of the White House December 1, 2003 in Washington, DC. (Photo by Mark Wilson/Getty Images)

Former President Alberto Fujimori, center, participates in a manhunt to find his former spy chief Vladimiro Montesinos in Lima, Peru, in this October 25, 2000, file photo. Fugitive and former Peruvian President Alberto Fujimori arrived in Chile Sunday, officials reported. The officials, who asked not to be identified, said the arrival of the 67-year-old former ruler came as a total surprise and the reasons for his coming here were not immediately known.(AP Photo)

Next eight are from http://www.dutchdefencepress.com/ Dutch KCT and BBP

This is a list of US Agencies using the P90, although I can't comfirm it's accuracy:

Atlanta, GA PD
Austin, TX PD
Belleview, NE PD
Bentonville, AR PD
Benton County, AR SO
Birmingham, AL PD
Bryan, TX PD
Burbank, CA PD
Camden, SC PD
Charleston County, SC SO
Chula Vista, CA PD
Columbia, MO PD
Creve Coeur, MO PD
Dallas, TX PD
Defense Protective Service
Doraville, GA PD
Duluth, GA PD
Edina, MN PD
Edmund, OK PD
Federal Protective Service
Grand Forks, ND PD
Hallsville, MO PD
Houston, TX PD
Jacksonville, FL PD
Las Vegas, NV PD
Lawrenceville, GA PD
Little Rock, AR PD
Missouri State Highway Patrol
Montana State Highway Patrol
North Little Rock, AR PD
Olathe, KS PD
Palm Beach, FL PD
Palm Beach County, FL SO
Pasco County, FL SO
Ramsey County, MN SO
Richland County, SC SO
Salt Lake City, UT PD
San Francisco, CA PD
Sioux Falls, SD PD
Sparta, NJ PD
Tennessee State Police ERT
Washoe County, NV SO
Zephyr Hills, FL PD

Link article on the P90 in service with the Houston PD.

 

[KevinB]

Well Senator John (Swift Boat) Kerry was here today - no P90's all M4A1's

 

[Falco]

The only P90 equipped USSS agents I've seen in the news and other sources were on the White House grounds. Might explain why you haven't encountered P90 carrying USSS agent.

 

[KevinB]

That actually just twigged to me as well- perhaps they dont want to make the White House look like a War Zone with M4's... :-\





 

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Just reading in a mag that FN has released a new version of the Five-sevenN pistol. Judging by the comments in the article is that the 5.7 anti-body armour round is very good at piercing body armour, but the typical 5.7 ammo is mediocre.

Apparently the P90 magazines are prone to cracking if dropped. Malaysia also uses the P90 according to my friend who deals with the military/police

Having carried the SMG for many years, with the cocking handle and magazine always sticking into you, I like the shape of the P90 and the large capacity magazine. I wonder if it would benefit from slightly larger round, say 6.5mm/6.8 x 28? 

 

[a_majoor]

I'm not sure the extra time and effort for creating a 6.5 X 28 would be worth it. Besides the total redesign of the weapons (P-05 and Six Five?), how much extra terminal effects would you get?

Don't forget, in the ideal world LMGs would be firing something like a 6.5 X 45 round for ideal ballistic performance (and way back when the Enfield EM-2 was developed using a .280 cal "ideal" cartridge for maximum performance as an assault rifle), but the 5.56 X 45 was adopted in the end for both rifles and LMGs because it was cheap, widely available and "good enough" to do the job.

FN developed the 5.7 X 28 from "first principles" and the weapons systems around the cartridge, so I would have to guess they had a good reason for settling on that configuration. I recall FN also had developed a 15mm HMG cartridge and HMG system in the 80's or early 90's, but could not sell them in the end because the venerable .50 and M-2 combination was also inexpensive, widely available and "good enough" do the job.

 

[Armymatters]

a_majoor:
The machine gun you are talking about is the FN BRG-15. The BRG-15 using the FN 15.5x115 mm round could pierce 10mm of steel armour at 30 degrees at the distance of 1350 meters, or, in other words, capable of defeating the armour of almost any APC at the distances of 1000 meters and beyond. In the final shape the BRG-15 was a very potent gun, but due to financial difficulties of the FN at the time, the company decided to shelve this project in the early 1990s, in the favour of the P90 PDW / submacinegun.

 

[KevinB]

Guys remember that FN has been working on an FN2000 bullpup and the SCAR/ARM for the last littlw while as well.

The PDW is a niche market and HK and others have attempted to capitalize on it as well in various calibres as well.
KAC and several US firms have attempted PDW's - but due to the poor wounding mechanism of the sub cal low velocity cartridges hardly anyone has adopted them.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I was re-reading the article in guns and ammo, the FN pistol offers a 20rd mag. Still the whole thing reminds me of the Mauser Broomhandle and I bet they were trying for the same thing, a light easy to carry weapon that provides enough firepower for those not involved in direct combat. As much as they change, they stay the same.