Who'll be the next CDS? Speculation here, please!!
- Thread starter fireman1867
- Start date
Somewhere around here, there was a very funny thread about Hillier and how when he gets into the water, Hillier does not get wet, but the water gets Hillier. Funny stuff. Well liked by the troops, and as I have read recently, I guess he is staying whee he his.
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Recce By Death said:Try this site....just substitute Chuck Norris' name for Gen Hillier's.
Your quote is number 57.
Regards
Ummm.... forgot the link there RBD
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Must be the turkey and Crown ;D
midget-boyd91
Sr. Member
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Recce By Death said:
Top 100?
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A few remarks from Peter Worthington.
Comment Link - Toronto Sun
Young Canadians respond
By PETER WORTHINGTON
Want to know how the Canadian military has changed in recent years?
Look at recruiting ads.
Back in the 1970s, DND recruiting ads stressed security -- that the military was a great career for young people (mostly men) and after 21 years a handsome pension awaited, with the possibility of a new civilian career.
That ad wasn't as appealing as some hoped, since financial "security" isn't a prime motivation for young folk contemplating the military. Financial security and pensions concern the middle aged.
In the 1980s and beyond, with Canadian troops on UN peacekeeping missions around the world (and personnel strained, with equipment ancient and inadequate), the ads switched to the theme: "There's no life like it!" -- young men and women in exotic environments, learning different trades, adventurous surroundings, a great chance to travel. That sort of thing.
Yes, the slogan inspired satire or mocking when things went wrong in the military and critics could sarcastically quip "there's no life like it -- thank goodness." Still, the ad had appeal.
Today, with Canadian troops embroiled in Afghanistan as our contribution to the war against terrorism, the demand for more recruits is critical.
To the dismay of the anti-military movement and the peace-at-any-price proponents, the fact Canadians are getting killed and wounded in combat does not deter recruiting. On the contrary, recruiting is up as danger or risk increases.
To some, this reality is both incomprehensible and inexplicable -- which shows the great divide in our country. I'd argue what this reflects is not increased patriotism, or young people being brainwashed by a military spinmeisters, but a yearning for adventure that burns strong in young Canadians.
The DND ads on TV today would have been inconceivable, even a decade ago. Witness this one:
"Fight fear ... fight chaos ...fight in the Canadian army." Wow! This ad actually gains recruits, and refutes the passivity that infects those in Canada who used to have control of the microphone and media soap box.
It isn't the "fighting" part that's appealing, but the fact our army has more direction these days.
Soldiers are well-trained (as are sailors and air crew), know their job, and are making a difference wherever they serve.
Of course, young soldiers feel invincible and immortal -- always have, except on those occasions when circumstance under fire invoke sheer terror and fear -- controlled or quelled by their discipline and training.
When the moment of fear passes, dark humour and fatalism return. Adrenaline brings an emotional high. Most soldiers learn to put fear behind them.
Now that the political campaign to replace Gordon O'Connor as Defence Minister has succeeded (a former soldier, he hastened the revival of Canada's military as a fighting force), the lib-left has switched to trying to get rid of General Rick Hillier as Chief of Defence Staff. He is too popular among troops, too aggressive, too daring, too outspoken for their liking.
They want a tamer, more passive CDS in command, witness a recent salvo against Hillier in a Maclean's article which, when read, seems more a fishing or exploratory expedition to be rid of him.
Hillier is a fighting commander of traditional hue, with the trust of rank-and-file soldiers.
Replacing him would encourage Canada's enemies at home and abroad -- which is a solid reason why he should not be replaced.
I can't argue with much here.
Comment Link - Toronto Sun
Young Canadians respond
By PETER WORTHINGTON
Want to know how the Canadian military has changed in recent years?
Look at recruiting ads.
Back in the 1970s, DND recruiting ads stressed security -- that the military was a great career for young people (mostly men) and after 21 years a handsome pension awaited, with the possibility of a new civilian career.
That ad wasn't as appealing as some hoped, since financial "security" isn't a prime motivation for young folk contemplating the military. Financial security and pensions concern the middle aged.
In the 1980s and beyond, with Canadian troops on UN peacekeeping missions around the world (and personnel strained, with equipment ancient and inadequate), the ads switched to the theme: "There's no life like it!" -- young men and women in exotic environments, learning different trades, adventurous surroundings, a great chance to travel. That sort of thing.
Yes, the slogan inspired satire or mocking when things went wrong in the military and critics could sarcastically quip "there's no life like it -- thank goodness." Still, the ad had appeal.
Today, with Canadian troops embroiled in Afghanistan as our contribution to the war against terrorism, the demand for more recruits is critical.
To the dismay of the anti-military movement and the peace-at-any-price proponents, the fact Canadians are getting killed and wounded in combat does not deter recruiting. On the contrary, recruiting is up as danger or risk increases.
To some, this reality is both incomprehensible and inexplicable -- which shows the great divide in our country. I'd argue what this reflects is not increased patriotism, or young people being brainwashed by a military spinmeisters, but a yearning for adventure that burns strong in young Canadians.
The DND ads on TV today would have been inconceivable, even a decade ago. Witness this one:
"Fight fear ... fight chaos ...fight in the Canadian army." Wow! This ad actually gains recruits, and refutes the passivity that infects those in Canada who used to have control of the microphone and media soap box.
It isn't the "fighting" part that's appealing, but the fact our army has more direction these days.
Soldiers are well-trained (as are sailors and air crew), know their job, and are making a difference wherever they serve.
Of course, young soldiers feel invincible and immortal -- always have, except on those occasions when circumstance under fire invoke sheer terror and fear -- controlled or quelled by their discipline and training.
When the moment of fear passes, dark humour and fatalism return. Adrenaline brings an emotional high. Most soldiers learn to put fear behind them.
Now that the political campaign to replace Gordon O'Connor as Defence Minister has succeeded (a former soldier, he hastened the revival of Canada's military as a fighting force), the lib-left has switched to trying to get rid of General Rick Hillier as Chief of Defence Staff. He is too popular among troops, too aggressive, too daring, too outspoken for their liking.
They want a tamer, more passive CDS in command, witness a recent salvo against Hillier in a Maclean's article which, when read, seems more a fishing or exploratory expedition to be rid of him.
Hillier is a fighting commander of traditional hue, with the trust of rank-and-file soldiers.
Replacing him would encourage Canada's enemies at home and abroad -- which is a solid reason why he should not be replaced.
I can't argue with much here.
Haggis
Army.ca Veteran
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CTV and Robert Fife strike again. In this case it's to highlighting the latest "rift" between the CDS and PM.
Shared with the usual disclaimer:
PMO rejects Hillier's timeline on Afghan mission
The PMO has reiterated the government's position, laid out in the throne speech, that it believes the Afghan people will be able to defend themselves by 2011 -- years ahead of the timeline Canada's top soldier gave Thursday.
Gen. Rick Hillier told reporters at the Kandahar airfield on Thursday that Afghanistan's army could need 10 years before it's in a position to fend for itself.
But in the recent throne speech, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said that objective could be accomplished by 2011.
"This really set off the Prime Minister's Office, they were completely caught off guard by this (and) they have now put out a statement officially rebuking Gen. Hillier," CTV's Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife reported Friday.
"What you have here is the government making policy and then being outflanked by the general who says in fact the government isn't telling the truth, that it can't be done by 2011, that it would take a decade."
Statement from Harper spokesperson
In a statement to CTV, Harper's director of communications Sandra Buckler did not directly address Hillier's comments.
"Building up the capacity of the Afghan people so that they can defend their own sovereignty has always been our goal and we know this will not happen overnight," said Buckler.
"However, our Government believes that this objective should be achievable by 2011, the end of the period covered by the Afghanistan Compact."
The Afghanistan Compact is a plan adopted last year by the international community to stabilize the war-torn country.
Buckler said the government would have the final decision on the matter.
"While we do look forward to receiving the report from the Manley Panel, we have said so many times before and will continue to emphasize, it will be Parliament that will ultimately decide how long our Canadian Forces will remain in Afghanistan," she said.
Hillier said Thursday that Afghanistan is only about halfway to the 70,000 soldiers it needs to maintain peace in the country.
He said the Afghan troops trained by Canadians and other NATO nations are "top-notch." But he noted it takes three years to build a battalion, which consists of about 500 to 600 soldiers.
"It's going to take 10 years or so just to work through and build an army to whatever the final number that Afghanistan will have, and make them professional and let them meet their security demands here," Hillier said.
Public policy dispute
The difference in timeframes wasn't easily dismissed by other parties who demanded answers outside the House of Commons on Thursday.
NDP Leader Jack Layton called the discrepancy "very serious" while speaking to reporters.
"If it's true, as General Hillier is suggesting, that Canada could be involved in the combat effort as the effort to train soldiers and police in Afghanistan takes 10 years, then we're talking about something very different than what Mr. Harper has told Canadians," he said.
Liberal defence critic Denis Coderre told reporters that Canadians shouldn't have to decide who's telling the truth.
"We have to come clean once and for all," he said. "You have Harper who plays with numbers like crazy and now he's saying that it's going to take four years. So, you know, you can understand why Canadians are confused sometimes about the mission."
Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe said, "I think General Hillier is telling the truth and Harper is playing politics, period. He knows Hillier is right on that."
Since 2002, 71 Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have been killed in Afghanistan.
Canada and its 2,500 troops are only committed to the Afghan mission until February 2009, although Harper has appointed a blue-ribbon panel to make recommendations on the mission's future.
With files from The Canadian Press.
Shared with the usual disclaimer:
PMO rejects Hillier's timeline on Afghan mission
The PMO has reiterated the government's position, laid out in the throne speech, that it believes the Afghan people will be able to defend themselves by 2011 -- years ahead of the timeline Canada's top soldier gave Thursday.
Gen. Rick Hillier told reporters at the Kandahar airfield on Thursday that Afghanistan's army could need 10 years before it's in a position to fend for itself.
But in the recent throne speech, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said that objective could be accomplished by 2011.
"This really set off the Prime Minister's Office, they were completely caught off guard by this (and) they have now put out a statement officially rebuking Gen. Hillier," CTV's Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife reported Friday.
"What you have here is the government making policy and then being outflanked by the general who says in fact the government isn't telling the truth, that it can't be done by 2011, that it would take a decade."
Statement from Harper spokesperson
In a statement to CTV, Harper's director of communications Sandra Buckler did not directly address Hillier's comments.
"Building up the capacity of the Afghan people so that they can defend their own sovereignty has always been our goal and we know this will not happen overnight," said Buckler.
"However, our Government believes that this objective should be achievable by 2011, the end of the period covered by the Afghanistan Compact."
The Afghanistan Compact is a plan adopted last year by the international community to stabilize the war-torn country.
Buckler said the government would have the final decision on the matter.
"While we do look forward to receiving the report from the Manley Panel, we have said so many times before and will continue to emphasize, it will be Parliament that will ultimately decide how long our Canadian Forces will remain in Afghanistan," she said.
Hillier said Thursday that Afghanistan is only about halfway to the 70,000 soldiers it needs to maintain peace in the country.
He said the Afghan troops trained by Canadians and other NATO nations are "top-notch." But he noted it takes three years to build a battalion, which consists of about 500 to 600 soldiers.
"It's going to take 10 years or so just to work through and build an army to whatever the final number that Afghanistan will have, and make them professional and let them meet their security demands here," Hillier said.
Public policy dispute
The difference in timeframes wasn't easily dismissed by other parties who demanded answers outside the House of Commons on Thursday.
NDP Leader Jack Layton called the discrepancy "very serious" while speaking to reporters.
"If it's true, as General Hillier is suggesting, that Canada could be involved in the combat effort as the effort to train soldiers and police in Afghanistan takes 10 years, then we're talking about something very different than what Mr. Harper has told Canadians," he said.
Liberal defence critic Denis Coderre told reporters that Canadians shouldn't have to decide who's telling the truth.
"We have to come clean once and for all," he said. "You have Harper who plays with numbers like crazy and now he's saying that it's going to take four years. So, you know, you can understand why Canadians are confused sometimes about the mission."
Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe said, "I think General Hillier is telling the truth and Harper is playing politics, period. He knows Hillier is right on that."
Since 2002, 71 Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have been killed in Afghanistan.
Canada and its 2,500 troops are only committed to the Afghan mission until February 2009, although Harper has appointed a blue-ribbon panel to make recommendations on the mission's future.
With files from The Canadian Press.
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geo said:
I guess it depends what standards you have for 'succeeded', 'hastened', and 'fighting force'.
Once the big fish leave their pond its amazing how much 20/20 hindsight shows they accomplished. Look at Mulrooney, left as one of the most disliked PM in history, yet his apologists claim he was the saviour of the country. Want proof? Read his latest literary effort where he tells you himself how great he was.
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A post at The Torch:
Hillier vs. Harper
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/10/hillier-vs-harper.html
Mark
Ottawa
Hillier vs. Harper
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/10/hillier-vs-harper.html
Mark
Ottawa
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Lets see...
A highly experienced Army General says it will take at least a decade to produce a sustainable military force (about 2017)
A political leader with no direct military experience says it will take until 2011 to create a sustainable military force.
It doesnt take a rocket scientitst to figure out who is more credible, and it makes the reporter look petty to claim this is a source of conflict between the two...
A highly experienced Army General says it will take at least a decade to produce a sustainable military force (about 2017)
A political leader with no direct military experience says it will take until 2011 to create a sustainable military force.
It doesnt take a rocket scientitst to figure out who is more credible, and it makes the reporter look petty to claim this is a source of conflict between the two...
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Gen. Hillier's views, while of obvious interest, are irrelevant.
The Afghanistan Compact is the key to our presence in Afghanistan and it will need to be renegotiated sometime between now and 2010 if we/ISAF are to continue with the mission. The Compact provides the legal cover for the mission - it is, essentially, Afghanistan's invitation to ISAF members to "come and help." It expires at end January 2011 and, from a policy perspective, so does our invitation.
So, it really doesn't matter how long it will take to do the job; the job, per se, ends when the Afghanistan Compact expires.
Edit: typo
The Afghanistan Compact is the key to our presence in Afghanistan and it will need to be renegotiated sometime between now and 2010 if we/ISAF are to continue with the mission. The Compact provides the legal cover for the mission - it is, essentially, Afghanistan's invitation to ISAF members to "come and help." It expires at end January 2011 and, from a policy perspective, so does our invitation.
So, it really doesn't matter how long it will take to do the job; the job, per se, ends when the Afghanistan Compact expires.
Edit: typo
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E.R. Campbell said:
True. I imagine the debating over the mission it will get pretty intense in the last half of 2010.
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I'm assuming that sometime in 09/10 there will be repeats of the Bonn and London conferences to renegotiate the Afghanistan Compact and, as part of the package, to redefine the security and development goals.
That renegotiated Compact should provide Canada, and others, with new targets in the defence, development and diplomacy arenas. Then the domestic political debate should begin again.
That renegotiated Compact should provide Canada, and others, with new targets in the defence, development and diplomacy arenas. Then the domestic political debate should begin again.
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Im thinking they'll postpone any serious debate until after the Olympics are held...
