Why are we Service Support rather then Combat Service Support?

[medaid]

That has been a question to which I've been pondering for quite sometime. I mean, MedTechs are constantly in the line of fire out side of the wire, along with their Combat Arms brethren. So, why are we considered Services Support? I mean, isnt the whole point of Combat, being that we're there being shot at with everyone else? If the definition of a CSS is that it contributes directly to the operational environment in the sense that it, supports, engages, and through direct or indirect actions effect the out come of the battles, then how can the H Svc not be considered Combat Service Support? Please inputs 

 

[Roy Harding]

That has been a question to which I've been pondering for quite sometime. I mean, MedTechs are constantly in the line of fire out side of the wire, along with their Combat Arms brethren. So, why are we considered Services Support? I mean, isnt the whole point of Combat, being that we're there being shot at with everyone else? If the definition of a CSS is that it contributes directly to the operational environment in the sense that it, supports, engages, and through direct or indirect actions effect the out come of the battles, then how can the H Svc not be considered Combat Service Support? Please inputs 

Because it is not one of your functions to engage the enemy (except in defense of yourself and your patients).  ALL CSS elements (truckers, clerks, supply techs, RCEME, etcetera) are EXPECTED to engage the enemy when opportunity arises - indeed upon occasion CSS elements will be expected to seek out and engage the enemy - Medics are NEVER expected to actively seek the enemy - IAW the Geneva Conventions.

I agree with your sentiments - the old "Arms Divisions" are outdated and for the most part not applicable to current operations against a non-state enemy.  It's not a slur on your service - simply an outdated label.

For what it's worth - personally I think you medics are bloody awesome (no pun intended) - and I could care less whether you are considered CSS, Svc Sp, or Cbt Arms - as long as you are there when needed (which you usually are).


Roy

 

[medaid]

Maybe because Combay Service Support doesn't exist  ;D

CHANGED! hahaha  thanks Nfld Sapper

Roy, thanks for answering my question. 


mods -  could you please lock it up and toss it away now? Cheers!

 

[WATCHDOG-81]

From Wikipedia:  Combat Support is a military term which refers to units which provide fire support and operational assistance to combat elements. Combat Support units provide specialized support functions to combat units in the areas of chemical warfare, intelligence, security, and communications.

Combat Support should not be confused with Combat Service Support, which are units which primarily provide logistical support by providing supply, maintenance, transportation, health services, and other services required by the soldiers of combat units to continue their missions in combat. Expressed another way, Combat Support units are focused on providing operational support to combat units, while Combat Service Support units are focused on providing logistical support to combat units.

Best regards.

 

[Mike Baker]

mods -  could you please lock it up and toss it away now? Cheers!

I say lock it up, but keep it if others want to know the info here. 

 

[McG]

From Wikipedia: 

Be carefull there.  You will find that the US definitions are not the same as Canadian.

So, why are we considered Services Support?

My understanding was that everything was either a combat arm, combat support, or combat service support.  Are you saying that there is a fourth category that only the medical world is in, or did you intend to ask something different?

 

[medaid]

MCG, maybe I'm just outdated, but when I saw on another thread about whether or not Engineers were Cbt Arms/CS. Anyways what I meant was why was Medical considered a CSS instead of a CS. Which was answered

 

[McG]

I'm not a fan of the answer you were given because it was based on the theory that you were not CSS (and I belive you are). 

 

[Roy Harding]

From NATO AAP-6-2006 (NATO Glossary of Terms and Definitions), which you can download (in PDF format)  here:  http://www.nato.int/docu/stanag/aap006/aap6.htm


Page 2-C-6:

combat service support / soutien
logistique du combat
The support provided to combat forces,
primarily in the fields of administration
and logistics. 1/12/74

combat support / appui tactique
Fire support and operational assistance
provided to combat elements. 1/11/94

Page 2-L-4:

logistics / logistique
The science of planning and carrying out
the movement and maintenance of
forces. In its most comprehensive sense,
the aspects of military operations which
deal with:

a. design and development, acquisition,
storage, movement, distribution,
maintenance, evacuation, and disposal of
materiel;

b. transport of personnel;

c. acquisition or construction,
maintenance, operation, and disposition
of facilities;

d. acquisition or furnishing of services;
and

e. medical and health service support.
22/9/04

Page 2-H-1

health service support / soutien santé
All services provided directly or
indirectly to contribute to the health and
well-being of patients or a population.
13/12/99

So - after all that, the only thing clear to me is that Med Sp is NOT a Cbt Sp function.  It MAY be a CSS function, although it has always been treated (in my experience in both the CF and various NATO allies) as a SEPARATE function - NOT classed as "CSS".

Regardless - its inclusion or exclusion from the term "CSS" is not a slight on the Med Branch or its soldiers.


Roy

 

[old medic]

Page 2-H-1

Health service support / soutien santé
All services provided directly or
indirectly to contribute to the health and
well-being of patients or a population.
13/12/99

And there is the key...  HSS.
Infact, the big manual on how we do it:  B-GL-343-001/FP-000
is titled Health Service Support.

B-GJ-005-300/FP-000 Canadian Forces Operations, also has a
chapter on Health Service Support.

 

[Armymedic]

Medical units are considered combat service support in the army context. That title has no bearing on how or where medical group personnel are actually employed.

 

[a78jumper]

Ditto. I was taught CSS was Logistics, EME functions in a Svc Bn, Medical and Dental Support in a Frd Amb , and MP in an MP Pl , all in a self sufficient CBG context.

In the day, CER and Sigs were CS, but Combat Engineers moved to Cbt Arms some years ago.Not sure what happened to the Engr Sp trades in a CER.