Widespread systemic racism in Canadian military ‘repulsing’ new recruits: report

[dapaterson]

Serious a Report that has a number 1 recommendation to study other reports?

You've never sent a "Per my earlier message (attached for your convenience)..." email?

 

[KevinB]

You've never sent a "Per my earlier message (attached for your convenience)..." email?

Most of mine go like "Hey Dumbass I already sent you this shit, why am I still needing to remind you..."

 

[Halifax Tar]

Its my opinion we should swear allegiance to the nation and not a head of state.

Yes please.

 

[FSTO]

Its my opinion we should swear allegiance to the nation and not a head of state.

I see your point but I view that the crown (and not the person who wears it, the body of christ and all that stuff) embodies the country and maybe avoids somewhat the little nasty part that our first nation's brethren are raising more and more frequently, "This chunk of land that the settlers call Canada"

 

[Remius]

Its my opinion we should swear allegiance to the nation and not a head of state.

Except you do.

 

[dangerboy]

Except you do.

Not really if you look at our Oath it is to the Queen, granted as Queen of Canda

6.04- OATH TAKEN ON ENROLMENT​

(1) An officer or non-commissioned member who is a Canadian citizen or a British subject shall, on enrolment, take the following oath or solemn affirmation:

"I ......... (full name), do swear (or for a solemn affirmation, "solemnly affirm") that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her heirs and successors according to law. So help me God."

The words "So help me God" shall be omitted if a solemn affirmation is taken.
(2) An officer or non-commissioned member who is not a Canadian citizen or a British subject shall, on enrolment, take the following oath or solemn affirmation:

"I ......... (full name), do swear (or for a solemn affirmation, "solemnly affirm") that I will well and truly serve Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her heirs and successors according to law, in the Canadian Forces until lawfully released, that I will resist Her Majesty's enemies and cause Her Majesty's peace to be kept and maintained and that I will, in all matters pertaining to my service, faithfully discharge my duty. So help me God."

 

[KevinB]

Maybe plagiarize ours...
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

 

[Halifax Tar]

Except you do.

(full name), do swear (or for a solemn affirmation, "solemnly affirm") that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her heirs and successors according to law. So help me God."

 

[Halifax Tar]

Maybe plagiarize ours...
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

I like that.

 

[Remius]

(full name), do swear (or for a solemn affirmation, "solemnly affirm") that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her heirs and successors according to law. So help me God."

Once you understand what the Queen of Canada embodies and personifies you understand that you actually pledge allegiance to the nation. We don’t properly teach civics in this country.

 

[Underway]

Maybe plagiarize ours...
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

That's the Oath of Alligence. The Enlistment Oath is different.

Enlistment Oath.—Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath:

“I, ____________________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”

It's an important distinction that the US military swears on the constitution not a person. It's the final US guarantee after the separation of Congress, Senate, Court, President, that democracy will not be turned into tyranny/dictatorship. It basically empowers the US military to enforce the Constitutional process.

 

[KevinB]

That's the Oath of Alligence. The Enlistment Oath is different.

Enlistment Oath.—Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath:

All commissioned LE Officers need to do that to.

It's an important distinction that the US military swears on the constitution not a person. It's the final US guarantee after the separation of Congress, Senate, Court, President, that democracy will not be turned into tyranny/dictatorship. It basically empowers the US military to enforce the Constitutional process.

Well we did have some history with tyrannical governments to guide us

 

[lenaitch]

We have had dozens of units, and thousands of troops, based in all our communities - large and small - for centuries. And yet few seem to know anything about us...

History aside, the greater Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal areas hold roughly 1/3 of the Canadian population. With, and I'm just guessing, perhaps a couple of thousand CAF employees in each, it's not a huge presence.

******

It's not always just immigrants from countries having a bad view of the military, many have a bad view of public service in general due to inherent corruption back home. As well, they steer (to be kind in some cases) their kids away from anything that is considered 'blue collar'.

Even among established generations, there has developed a rather unique attitude among young generation urbanites who view moving away from their immediate circle of family and friends to be a significant roadblock, so any career prospect with the likes of the military for many would be a non-starter. Heck, in Toronto, for many, north of Eglinton is viewed as akin to Outer Mongolia. Couple that with a general distaste for anything outside or physical, or that can't take advantage of that BA in early European poetry, and I have a hard time seeing a target rich environment no matter how much effort or targeting goes on. Maybe better outreach at the school level, but I can image the backlash at even the thought of it.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Maybe plagiarize ours...
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

And I thought yours read . . .

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

Or if an officer . . .

I ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God. (Title 5 U.S. Code 3331, an individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit in the civil service or uniformed services)

 

[Ostrozac]

History aside, the greater Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal areas hold roughly 1/3 of the Canadian population. With, and I'm just guessing, perhaps a couple of thousand CAF employees in each, it's not a huge presence.

I have an enduring fear that the closure of CFBs Chilliwack, Toronto and St Hubert (as well as Calgary) in the 1990’s were a turning point in the CAF relationship with urban Canada that we may never recover from. We turned our collective backs on the largest population centers in the country. Now, with our traditional recruiting areas in small town Canada being seemingly depopulated of their fighting age potential recruits, we are trying to reach back into those big cities. And failing.

It may be too late.

 

[FSTO]

Heck, in Toronto, for many, north of Eglinton is viewed as akin to Outer Mongolia.

Sounds like the RMC logistic 2Lt who much to her horror got posted to Wainwright.

 

[FSTO]

Now, with our traditional recruiting areas in small town Canada being seemingly depopulated

I watched that exodus during my school years in Western Manitoba. But if you listen to our detractors, rural Canada is the only place we are looking to gain recruits from!

 

[Halifax Tar]

Once you understand what the Queen of Canada embodies and personifies you understand that you actually pledge allegiance to the nation. We don’t properly teach civics in this country.

You call roll around in word games all you like but that oath is pretty simple.

As support for the crown continues into obscurity our country is going to have to confront this messy intersection.

 

[Underway]

History aside, the greater Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal areas hold roughly 1/3 of the Canadian population. With, and I'm just guessing, perhaps a couple of thousand CAF employees in each, it's not a huge presence.

******

It's not always just immigrants from countries having a bad view of the military, many have a bad view of public service in general due to inherent corruption back home. As well, they steer (to be kind in some cases) their kids away from anything that is considered 'blue collar'.

Plenty of immigrant communities have positive views of the military as well. S. Korean community is very common in the RCN in my experience.

There are fixes for recruitment issues on this. But it requires a whole of government approach that I don't think the Treasury Board or Immigration are willing to change.

• accepting security clearances from Immigration Canada as valid for Basic Training and certain trades, if better security clearances are needed then initiate them at recruiting group and delay their trades training until its valid (Treasury Board Policy)
• accepting non-citizens through a "gain your citizenship program" similar to the USMC or French Foreign Legion (Immigration and Treasury Board Policy)
  • this in particular would require a change in the "points" system to allow people who don't meet the current cream of the crop standards
  • language training like in the Foreign Legion in an official language as part of their recruitment
  • this may go back to the security clearance from earlier. Immigration would accept CAF security clearances to make the new members citizens because we have a higher standard than they do.
• accepting commonwealth citizens as the UK does. This would immediately increase recruiting because Canada pays waaaaaay more then the UK does. All the folks from the Pacific Islands who join the Hussars in the UK would join the RCD's in Canada instead because they send the money back home to the family. And the bonus is they all speak English already.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

You call roll around in word games all you like but that oath is pretty simple.

As support for the crown continues into obscurity our country is going to have to confront this messy intersection.

Seeing as it's enshrined in our Constitution that the Crown is the Head of State and would require a full Constitutional Amendment to be removed.... good luck.