Wings

[money]

Back in '68 when the Regiment was formed I understood that there was a difference in the colour of the Maple Leaf on the Airborne Paratrooper Badge.

Initially I was told that RED meant Jump Qualified and a White one meant " served with the Regiment".

Anyone out there know the exact difference????

My thanks
William

 

[Swingline1984]

As you said; red means qualified.  White means you have, or are serving in an active jump position i.e. a jump Coy, Airborne Regt, CSOR etc.

 

[Swingline1984]

Red: Completed the Parachutist Course
White: Served at least one year in regiment in active position.

Best of my knowledge, could be wrong.

There is no time restraint.

 

[Old Sweat]

As I recall the white maple leaf was introduced sometime in the mid-seventies for the purpose stated above. I must add I am not sure that the one year figure was part of it, at least back then.

If anybody cares, there was an attempt around 1970-1971 to introduce a CF pattern wing with the wings bent upward in the arc such as was used for certain air force "back of the plane" badges. It was short lived, very, very short lived.

 

[Swingline1984]

Just for clarity (as I have heard the 1 yr thing before), Dress Regs only state the following with regards to wearing of para wings (my copy is a little old so some items on the list may differ from yours):

13. Parachute Badge. Two versions exist:

a. The Parachute Badge with white maple leaf
is worn by parachutists who have received
Paratroop Allowance for:

(1) service on strength of one of the
following operational airborne
formations or units:

(a) Specifically designated Regular and
Militia army sub-units assigned to
the airborne role,

(b) Canadian Parachute Centre; or

(2) service on strength of one of the
following previous airborne formations
or units:

(a) Special Service Force,

(b) Canadian Airborne Regiment,

(c) Canadian Airborne Centre,

(d) CF Parachute Maintenance Depot,

(e) Mobile Strike Force,

(f) Defence of Canada Force,

(g) Canadian Joint Air Training Centre,
and

(h) 28 Central Ordnance Depot.

b. Other qualified parachutists shall wear the
red maple leaf Parachute Badge.

 

[money]

THANKS a LOT guys, that clarifies things

My Gratitude

William

 

[57Chevy]

White: Served at least one year in regiment in active position.

Two years in a jump position when I served with the CAR 77-79.

 

[PiperDown]

Fact.

The day you clear into a unit in designated jump position you put up your "white" leaf.
I know many, many people who have been in DEU ( or back in the day, jump smock) within days of clearing in who are wearing the white leaf. ( even though, they have yet to do their 7th jump ! )

 

[57Chevy]

Fact.

The day you clear into a unit in designated jump position you put up your "white" leaf.
I know many, many people who have been in DEU ( or back in the day, jump smock) within days of clearing in who are wearing the white leaf. ( even though, they have yet to do their 7th jump ! )

Obviously when you are posted to a designated jump position you wear the "white" wings. But to retain them after leaving, you must have served the full 2 years in said jump position.

 

[Journeyman]

Obviously when you are posted to a designated jump position you wear the "white" wings. But to retain them after leaving, you must have served the full 2 years in said jump position.

There is no such regulation.
That 'fact' is just as valid as "all real paratroopers have their wings tattooed on their hand between thumb and forefinger."

It just ain't so -- no matter how many times it's said, or if you include the argument-winning term, "obviously."

 

[57Chevy]

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/cfa-oaf/055-10-eng.asp
PARACHUTE BADGE

19. A CF parachute badge may be awarded to a member of the Regular or Reserve Force after successful completion of formal CF training or a CF qualifying course for parachutists.

20. Members who have received military training or courses from other countries for which the requirements are deemed to be equivalent may be authorized to wear the CF parachute badge subject to approval by NDHQ/DLO (Director Land Operations).

21. A student parachutist is eligible for the award of the parachute badge upon successful completion of the CF parachutist course.

22. A qualified parachutist will normally forfeit the parachute badge when:
a.after qualification on a CF-approved parachutist course, the member refuses to serve as a parachutist;
b.the member requests to discontinue parachuting before completion two years of satisfactory parachute duty;
c.after volunteering for service in the Canadian Airborne Regiment, the member refuses to serve there as a parachutist after qualification on a CF-approved parachutist course; or
d.the member refuses to make a parachute descent at any time while serving in a position in an airborne unit for which the member is entitled to draw paratroop allowance.

 

[Journeyman]

22. A qualified parachutist will normally forfeit the parachute badge when:
a.after qualification on a CF-approved parachutist course, the member refuses to serve as a parachutist;
b.the member requests to discontinue parachuting before completion two years of satisfactory parachute duty;

Yes, that refers to the badge itself -- you know, the yellow wings and white parachute bit -- regardless of leaf colour.

Again, there is no regulation stating two years to retain the white maple leaf. It has come up occasionally during my several years in various designated parachutist positions, and no one has found such a regulation.

 

[57Chevy]

I completed my basic jump course in 1976 and was awarded my "Red wings" parachute badge.

About a year later I was posted to the CAR. and underwent what is known as the "Maroon Beret Course" which was in fact very similar to the Basic Parachutist course. Upon successfull completion of said course I was awarded my "White wings" parachute badge and the Maroon Beret.

Emmediately after that, we signed official paperwork to serve at least two full years with the Regiment ( but you wouldn't know that ) and thus became entitled to "jump pay".

This was followed by a brief "meet and greet" with some already serving members of the CAR and integrated into the "commandos".

The CFAO was based on service with the Canadian Airborne Regiment and every commando was
aware of the forfeiture policy. The CFAO using the phrase "will normally forfeit" is clear in that respect.

22. A qualified parachutist will normally forfeit the parachute badge when:

1.after qualification on a * CF-approved parachutist course, the member refuses to serve as a parachutist;

* The Basic Paracutist course.
  In this case, you would normally forfeit your "red wings" parachute badge.

2. the member requests to discontinue parachuting before completion two years of satisfactory parachute duty;

After signing on the line that is neither here nor there (the dotted line) to serve two years, the qualified parachutist (commando) will normally forfeit the "white wings" parachutist badge.

3. after volunteering for service in the Canadian Airborne Regiment, the member refuses to serve there as a parachutist after *qualification on a CF-approved parachutist course;

*By this, they mean "The Maroon Beret course". And again, the qualified parachutist (commando) will normally forfeit the "white wings" parachutist badge.
    or
1.the member refuses to make a parachute descent at any time while serving in a position in an airborne unit for which the member is entitled to draw paratroop allowance.

And again, the same thing applies here.

How the CFAO interpretation applies since the CAR era may have changed, but you can rest assured,
it applied back then.

One of the nice things about serving two years with the CAR is that afterwards you were almost guaranteed the choice of either:
a. staying
b. going back to your home unit
c. rebadging to another unit or,
d. remustering into a trade.

 

[Journeyman]

....we signed official paperwork to serve at least two full years with the Regiment ( but you wouldn't know that )

You're right, during my years in the Airborne Regiment (and other "designated jump positions"), we never had to sign paperwork saying we'd do our jobs.  :

Back to the topic, however, once again you merely cite your flawed interpretation of an irrelevant CFAO.

The regulation you quote says "parachute badge" -- which is to say "the parachute badge," not "the parachute badge, with the really special white maple leaf," --  you blindly insist that "what the CFAO really, truly means to say is....."

I've found that CFAO are "orders"...not really "bar room and Legion-conversation suggestions" open to random interpretations (but you wouldn't know that).

Because you continue to argue, without fact, since NO SUCH RELEVANT REGULATION EXISTS, there can obviously be no intellectual closure to this "debate."*
I'm done.



*The story of mud-wrestling with a pig comes to mind.

 

[57Chevy]

we never had to sign paperwork saying we'd do our jobs.

We all enthusiatically volunteered to sign a commitment to serve with the Canadian Airborne Regiment.



Tour lengths in the CAR varied, but generally the more junior ranks stayed for longer periods. The normal tour for an officer was two to three years; for senior NCOs it was generally two to four years. However, members could stay with the CAR indefinitely if they were willing to continue to volunteer for Airborne service.
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/reports-rapports/som/vol2/vol208-eng.asp


I see that a similar question was brought up before and was answered appropriately in the following thread:

An aside: Do they make divers take the badge down if they rescind themselves? They use to, do they still?

and again here:

Although jumpers need to stay current, the course is only done once per career. If jumper does not stay current, they need only do the refresher. The basic para qual stays -- always (unless, of course, one should refuse a posting upgrade to a white wing area ... then the cherry wings can be removed from the refusing member -- sometimes forcefully!!  ).

*The story of mud-wrestling with a pig comes to mind.

Sure does !

First you start with sarcasm then you stoop to insults.

I'm done.

Ditto !

 

[wildman0101]

OSONS Brother's,
You all earned your wing's
Stop fighting now or kick my own
ass.
I tried to get on a jump course but
other commitment's prevented that.
I did however wear the SSF Flash
and was so very proud to serve in
the SSF Brigade 8-CH(PL) Armoured
and to have served with you chap's.
Cheer's and best regard's,
Scoty B

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Scoty,

Many of us did our SSF thing, and proudly, if not somewhat reluctantly. Anyway, the connection between the SSF and this thread is extremely tenuous, at best.

However, thanks for caring.

 

[wildman0101]

recceguy,
Copy that Ill shut-up now. LOL
What's happening your end of
the world these day's. send PM
Sit-rep.
Scoty B

 

[wildman0101]

Recceguy,
Re: my last. My PM this site is not
working so send sitrep to my
Email:
Thank's
Scoty B
P.S. for security reason's this post
re: E-mail please delete.
P.S. Other than this I dont know how
to keep in touch. Cheer's.

 

[Swingline1984]

We all enthusiatically volunteered to sign a commitment to serve with the Canadian Airborne Regiment...etc, etc...

If you'll permit me to weigh in.  As Journeyman stated, you correctly claim that "the badge" (white/red/purple with zebra stripes) will/can be removed if you refuse to jump when given the order, however you are arguing apples and oranges.  There is no time restriction on the wearing of white wings (which was the OPs question).  You are entitled to wear them in perpetuity having served on strength of a mandated organization within an active role and you are entitled to wear them if your service was 2 days, 2 years or until death do us part.  The only caveat (which is tied to your point) is that if while performing that role you refuse to jump you will/can be stripped of your wings. 
:duel: