Women in U.S. infantry (USMC, Rangers, etc. - merged)
- Thread starter daftandbarmy
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daftandbarmy
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tomahawk6 said:
That makes sense, because US Rangers aren't supposed to operate in 'isolated' environments, right? :
“We thought it would be helpful to bring women into the course prior to the arrival of the first women students” to ease “isolation” issues or concerns among female students, Fivecoat said, and give them “an opportunity to succeed.”
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Ranger School is not the same as a Ranger battalion assignment.The school is a leadership course with a large percent of students being officers.Ranger battalions will send their junior leaders to Ranger School.The two are not one and the same.
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S.M.A. said:
It seem to me that there re some systemic issues at play.
First off, The CET may not be an adequate assessment tool for candidate selection, as the parameters don't match up with the course for which they are being considered. The loads are less than those used in the IOC course. The pace is limited to 3 mph, but in the IOC there appears to be no such limitation.
Which leads to the second issue, in that it seems that the pace setter on the IOC moves is missing a major point. Not having an infantry back ground, my opinion only, but given a certain timing to complete the move, and setting a higher pace than is necessary to complete the move is setting up the candidates for failure, and is itself a failure of leadership essentials. You should be setting the pace so that you ensure that a) the timings are met, b) your troops are able to keep that pace and arrive at the final location on time and able to perform the necessary tasks upon arrival.
You have 3 hours to complete a 9 mile move. 3 mph gets you to the objective on time. You will need to adjust the pace over the course of the move as terrain will result in faster or slower movement based on the type of ground you are moving over. But you also need to keep our troops moving together, as being strung out over long distances makes the unit ineffective. But arriving at the location with exhausted troops that are physically incapable of performing the next tasking is a failure.
The point seems to be that the candidates setting the pace during the IOC are treating the move as a race, forgetting that the move is only a part of the mission. No one cares if you got there in 2 hours 34 minutes if the unit is not ineffective.
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I was wonder if any guys fell out
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I'm inclined to agree with Cupper. 2Lt Trackstar takes off leading his platoon. Trackstar arrives at RV 40 minutes ahead of scheduled arrival. 50% of his platoon dribbles in over the next hour, completely knackered. Remainder, including his support weapons, are someplace between here and there, lost in the dark, in enemy hands or down at the local pub.
daftandbarmy
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tomahawk6 said:
Of course the answer is to make sure that all your troops are so fit and keen that the Officers and NCOs are afraid of falling out.
ballz
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cupper said:
Our Infantry Officer phase courses are no different. The BFT was 13km, ~40-50lbs including all your kit even your rifle, and you had 2h 26m to complete it. I can honestly say the lightest ruck I carried during the course was 60 lbs and I definitely topped 100 lbs on occasions, none of this including my other kit.
There is no fitness test that will be able to accurately predict how someone is going to fair when they are sleep-deprived, wet, cold, hungry, and their feet are falling apart. That's why the course itself is the test of whether or not you can be an Infantry Officer. The course is a learning/training/experience tool, but it is also, ultimately, the test.
All you can do is ensure the candidates are physically fit and hope for the best. At least the USMC has something in place like their CET to weed out people prior to starting the course, that's more than we're doing.
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September news, which I did not see posted.
http://www.army.mil/article/133641/
Women volunteers needed for Ranger course assessment
September 12, 2014
WASHINGTON (Army News Service, Sept. 12, 2014) -- The Army is asking for female volunteers to possibly attend a Ranger course in the spring.
A final decision will be made in January on whether or not to actually conduct the one-time assessment, officials said. Since the Army needs to identify, select and begin training for potential participants, two "All Army Activity" or ALARACT messages are being sent to the field asking for volunteers.
The Ranger assessment course would train men and women together in order to help prepare institutions, schools and leaders for future integration decisions, according to Army G-1 officials at the Pentagon.
The assessment course would be open to all women in the ranks of specialist to major, if they can meet the physical qualifications and prerequisites.
Female observers would also be needed to serve as advisors to the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade. Staff sergeants to master sergeants would be eligible, along with chief warrant officers 2 and 3, first lieutenants, captains and majors. The deadline to submit selection packets is Oct. 10. Potential students and observers will be identified in December.
Current Ranger course standards will remain the same for all students, said G-1 officials. Prerequisites, phase performance requirements and graduation standards would not change for the assessment.
"We will be prepared to execute the assessment professionally and objectively, if directed," said Maj. Gen. Scott Miller, commanding general of the Maneuver Center of Excellence and Fort Benning.
All female candidates would be required to attend the Army National Guard Ranger Training and Assessment Course, known as RTAC, conducted at Fort Benning, Georgia, prior to the assessment course.
Women who volunteer to serve as observers for the Ranger course must also undergo a selection process that includes a fitness test, land navigation, a combat water survival assessment, an operations order test, 12-mile road march with 35-pound rucksack, and review boards.
The women will not be Ranger instructors during the assessment, but as observers they will need to be able to keep up to the students and instructors.
Women who complete the Ranger assessment course as students will be awarded the Ranger tab to wear, but will not be awarded associated Ranger skill identifiers due to restrictions in Title 10, U.S. Code, Section 652. The decision to change that or not is scheduled to be made by the secretary of Defense no later than Jan. 1, 2016 when he determines if women will be permitted to become Infantry Soldiers and serve in other closed military occupational specialties.
About Soldier 2020:
The secretary of Defense revoked the direct ground combat rule, Jan. 24, 2013, following a unanimous recommendation by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The Army and other services were given until January 2016 to implement changes and submit requests to exclude specific military occupational specialties from the ban being lifted.
In May of 2012, the Army announced it would open six military occupational specialties, or MOS's, that were previously closed to women. This opened combat-related jobs in 37 battalions across nine brigade combat teams.
The six MOS's opened were 13M Multiple Launch Rocket System crewmember, 13P MLRS operations/fire direction specialist, 13R Field Artillery Firefinder Radar operator specialist, 91A M1 Abrams tank system maintainer, 91M Bradley Fighting Vehicle system maintainer and 91P Artillery mechanic.
Over the past year, the Army Training and Doctrine Command has been conducting a Physical Demands Study to develop gender-neutral standards for tasks performed by combat MOS's. The study is part of Soldier 2020, the Army's initiative to look at integrating women into previously-closed MOS's such as infantry, combat engineer, field artillery and armor.
(For more ARNEWS stories, visit http://www.army.mil/ARNEWS, or Facebook at www.facebook.com/ArmyNewsService)
http://www.army.mil/article/133641/
Women volunteers needed for Ranger course assessment
September 12, 2014
WASHINGTON (Army News Service, Sept. 12, 2014) -- The Army is asking for female volunteers to possibly attend a Ranger course in the spring.
A final decision will be made in January on whether or not to actually conduct the one-time assessment, officials said. Since the Army needs to identify, select and begin training for potential participants, two "All Army Activity" or ALARACT messages are being sent to the field asking for volunteers.
The Ranger assessment course would train men and women together in order to help prepare institutions, schools and leaders for future integration decisions, according to Army G-1 officials at the Pentagon.
The assessment course would be open to all women in the ranks of specialist to major, if they can meet the physical qualifications and prerequisites.
Female observers would also be needed to serve as advisors to the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade. Staff sergeants to master sergeants would be eligible, along with chief warrant officers 2 and 3, first lieutenants, captains and majors. The deadline to submit selection packets is Oct. 10. Potential students and observers will be identified in December.
Current Ranger course standards will remain the same for all students, said G-1 officials. Prerequisites, phase performance requirements and graduation standards would not change for the assessment.
"We will be prepared to execute the assessment professionally and objectively, if directed," said Maj. Gen. Scott Miller, commanding general of the Maneuver Center of Excellence and Fort Benning.
All female candidates would be required to attend the Army National Guard Ranger Training and Assessment Course, known as RTAC, conducted at Fort Benning, Georgia, prior to the assessment course.
Women who volunteer to serve as observers for the Ranger course must also undergo a selection process that includes a fitness test, land navigation, a combat water survival assessment, an operations order test, 12-mile road march with 35-pound rucksack, and review boards.
The women will not be Ranger instructors during the assessment, but as observers they will need to be able to keep up to the students and instructors.
Women who complete the Ranger assessment course as students will be awarded the Ranger tab to wear, but will not be awarded associated Ranger skill identifiers due to restrictions in Title 10, U.S. Code, Section 652. The decision to change that or not is scheduled to be made by the secretary of Defense no later than Jan. 1, 2016 when he determines if women will be permitted to become Infantry Soldiers and serve in other closed military occupational specialties.
About Soldier 2020:
The secretary of Defense revoked the direct ground combat rule, Jan. 24, 2013, following a unanimous recommendation by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The Army and other services were given until January 2016 to implement changes and submit requests to exclude specific military occupational specialties from the ban being lifted.
In May of 2012, the Army announced it would open six military occupational specialties, or MOS's, that were previously closed to women. This opened combat-related jobs in 37 battalions across nine brigade combat teams.
The six MOS's opened were 13M Multiple Launch Rocket System crewmember, 13P MLRS operations/fire direction specialist, 13R Field Artillery Firefinder Radar operator specialist, 91A M1 Abrams tank system maintainer, 91M Bradley Fighting Vehicle system maintainer and 91P Artillery mechanic.
Over the past year, the Army Training and Doctrine Command has been conducting a Physical Demands Study to develop gender-neutral standards for tasks performed by combat MOS's. The study is part of Soldier 2020, the Army's initiative to look at integrating women into previously-closed MOS's such as infantry, combat engineer, field artillery and armor.
(For more ARNEWS stories, visit http://www.army.mil/ARNEWS, or Facebook at www.facebook.com/ArmyNewsService)
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So if I am reading this right, they consider system maintainers as combat positions and therefore women were not eligible to work in that occupation? Me thinks someone was really stretching the definition of combat positions when they decided those 3 occupations were to be included. Especially as the experiences in Iraq showed that almost every occupation could come into combat.
MilEME09
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Given the very sexist views I have seen in the US military in regards to women in combat trades the "positive peer review" portion I see as the most difficult part of that entire thing, but given its range selection its all pretty damn hard from videos i've watched.
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