Women Serving on US Submarines

[CougarKing]

On a semi-related note, I remember seeing a woman sailor aboard the Canadian submarine featured in an episode of "Truth, Duty Valour", IIRC.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/090925/us/usreport_us_usa_submarines_women

U.S. military may lift ban on women in submarines

1 hour, 53 minutes ago


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Top Pentagon officials are calling for an end to the U.S. military's historical ban on allowing women to serve in submarines.

Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the top U.S. military officer, advocated the policy change in written congressional testimony distributed by his office to reporters on Friday.


"I believe we should continue to broaden opportunities for women. One policy I would like to see changed is the one barring (women's) service aboard submarines," Mullen said.

Navy Secretary Ray Mabus said he was "moving out aggressively on this."


"I am very comfortable addressing integrating women into the submarine force," Admiral Gary Roughead, chief of naval operations, said in a statement.


Women account for about 15 percent of the more than 336,000 members of the U.S. Navy and can serve on its surface ships. But critics have argued that submarines are different, pointing to cramped quarters where some crews share beds in shifts.


Nancy Duff Campbell, an advocate for expanding the role of women in the U.S. armed forces, said it would be easy to resolve problems associated with so-called "hot-bunking."


"They say, 'How could we have the women sleeping in the same area as men?'" said Campbell, co-president of the National Women's Law Center (NWLC).


"But they already separate where the officers sleep from the enlisted, so it's not like it can't be done."


Roughead said the problem of sorting out accommodations on the U.S. fleet of 71 submarines was not insurmountable.


Allowing women on submarines would be another step forward in expanding the role of women in the U.S. military. Last year, a woman was promoted to the rank of four-star general for the first time.


Women are still barred from traditional frontline combat roles in the U.S. military. But female soldiers often run the same risks as men in Iraq and Afghanistan, where bombings and other insurgent attacks can happen almost anywhere and target any U.S. unit.


(Reporting by Phil Stewart; editing by Paul Simao)

 

[kratz]

Yes, the CF allowed women to serve with the boats starting in 2001 and was discussed on MilNet.ca here. I do not know the current numbers of women serving with the subs.

 

[Occam]

I do not know the current numbers of women serving with the subs.

I would be very surprised if the number were much higher than "zero".

The initial announcement was mostly an exercise in PR, as there was hardly a stampede of women wanting to serve on a sub.  Looking back at the original article in 2001, I don't believe the Master Seaman (now PO2, I believe) ever did go on to sail with subs.

 

[kratz]

I am certain of one female sailing with HCMS CORNER BROOK in 2005 as she was one of my students from that boat. I agree, the numbers are most likely low for females actually serving with the subs.

In any event, this decision by the US will open another avenue for women to serve, and provide a potentially larger pool for the Navy to draw from.

 

[mariomike]

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/world/2009/10/14/11394181-sun.html

 

[FDO]

Sounds like the same concerns that surfaced when they said they were putting women on surface ships. Some of the flats (passageways) are narrow as well. The Army had to deal with women living in tents and all the other close quarters things that go along with it. As always there will be a lot of crying and dripping but in the end it will happen and the sailors will learn how to live with it. Same as we did on "skimmers"

 

[gcclarke]

A rediculous notion. If the only reason your husband doesn't cheat on you is because there's no women around to cheat on you with, then guess what honey? Your marriage was a farce to begin with.

I'm not saying that it will never happen. I'm just saying, if your husband is willing to sleep with someone else onboard, he'd probably do the same thing once they go ashore in foreign port.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I never understand this "quota" mentality.  Maybe thats how many women are interested in being a firefighter in NYC, or who can pass the trg (I have no idea what the trg is like), or whatever the reason may be.

Who cares about how many are male/female.  I care only if they can do the job and don't have a fucktard personality.

 

[ballz]

The USN has come a long way and sets an example for places like New York City, where women account for just 28 of 11,400 firefighters.

I don't know where your going with this. Are you saying that the NYFD should lower all it's physical standards so that there's an equal number of men and women? So that a male that only does 18 pushups can't get in because he's deemed physically unable to do the job of a firefighter but a female that can do 9 gets the job instead because she is deemed physically able to do the same job?

Is that the "equal opportunity" you're advocating?

I, like Eye in the Sky, don't care about gender, only that they can carry my burning @$$ out of burning building.

With regards to the Navy and submarines, it is the same as anything else, it's stupid to give a job to somebody for any reason other than being the most capable. If that a person is female, who the flying f**k cares, give her the job.

 

[Dissident]

Well, fair is fair. If sailors in submarines can only be males, according to the wives, the reverse should be applied also: Have all significant others of man serving in a submarine sequestered on an island where there are no males older than 12, for the duration of the time at sea.

I am being facetious, but you get the point.

 

[MARS]

I don't know where mariomike is going either, but it may not necessarily be toward lowering standards.

Remember the recent case in Richmond, BC with their fire service?  The reports highlight some serious allegations of harassment.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2006/09/22/bc-firefighters-ready.html

One of the female firefighters who complained had been part of the service for 14 years, so, it doesn't appear to me that standards are/were an issue, nor did I ever hear that was an issue.  Simply a hostile workplace toward women.  I doubt the female firefighters did much in the way to encourage other women to enter such a workplace and choose firefighting as a career. 

I was in PROVIDER when the first women were embarked - lots of dripping and moaning about taking down our pin-ups,  allocating female heads and washplaces, could the women do our jobs (as boatswains), etc.  All of it garbage and we got over it, but not right away.  And the female NCMs - there were 7 (plus 3 officers) certainly had a harder go of it than they should have.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'll tell you what went wrong here. There was no mention in the article about equal rights, EMS, etc. It was all about facilities and perceived harrassment aboard a US Navy boat. It went off the rails, once mariomike brought in the whole EMS thing, again, and how he sees it in relation to women, equality of performance and how it plays out in a fire hall.

mm,

I'm sure it was a great place to work, and EMS types are some of the best, unselfish people around. The problem is, as close as the jobs seem to be, there is little relation between them and the military. However, please stop equating and bringing EMS into almost every thread you participate in. I'm sure there are forums somewhere on the internet, that like ours, cater to their specifics. This one is military, please try and keep it that way. I'm tired of answering complaints about this.

 

[mariomike]

ok.

 

[Redeye]

I think you're mostly right here.

Interesting aside, the byline on the article is St. Mary's, Georgia, which is the home of King's Bay Naval Sub Base, which is one of two home ports for Ohio-class SSBNs.  My wife grew up in St. Mary's and still keeps in touch with many of her old friends there - many who have become Navy wives and divorcees subsequently because of extracurricular activities.  When I showed the article to my wife she was hardly surprised given the experience of knowing so many sailors (including very good friends of ours who had a very messy divorce).

Now, that's not to say that boomer drivers are any better or worse at marriage, or that I think their arguments have much weight, but I can understand to some degree the concerns they have.

A rediculous notion. If the only reason your husband doesn't cheat on you is because there's no women around to cheat on you with, then guess what honey? Your marriage was a farce to begin with.

I'm not saying that it will never happen. I'm just saying, if your husband is willing to sleep with someone else onboard, he'd probably do the same thing once they go ashore in foreign port.

 

[ballz]

What I find funny about this is that... women are blaming the other woman (who may be single, making her completely innocent IMO), and not their husband. If that woman is single she can sleep with whoever she damn well pleases.

Food for thought, how back asswards is it if everytime a woman cheated on her husband with a coworker, the husband started advocating taking away men's rights to work with their wives. Maybe these wives should think about how stupid that would be.

 

[CougarKing]

Military.com link

Ban on Women on Subs Lifted
May 01, 2010
Associated Press

The U.S. military's ban on women serving on submarines passed quietly into history.

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates notified lawmakers in mid-February that the Navy would be lifting the ban, unless Congress took some action against it. And Navy spokesman Lt. Justin Cole said Thursday morning that the deadline for Congress to act passed at midnight.

The Navy plans a press conference later Thursday to talk about the new policy.

"There are extremely capable women in the Navy who have the talent and desire to succeed in the submarine force," Navy Secretary Ray Mabus said hours after the congressional deadline passed. "Enabling them to serve in the submarine community is best for the submarine force and our Navy.

"We literally could not run the Navy without women today," Mabus said in a statement released by the Submarine Force headquarters in Norfolk, Va.

The Navy expanded the number of assignments available to women 15 years ago, allowing them to serve on surface ships but deeming that their service on submarines would cost too much. In preparation for changing the old policy, the Navy has worked out a plan to phase in women by allowing them to begin serving on submarines that will not require costly alterations to accommodate females.

The Navy plans to start by assigning three female officers each in eight different crews of guided-missile attack submarines and ballistic missile submarines. That involves two submarines on the east coast and two on the west coast. Officials said that since more living space is available aboard those subs, it won't require modification to the vessels, allowing the Navy to move faster to include women.

The female officers would be assigned after completing the 15-month submarine officer training pipeline, which consists of nuclear power school, prototype training, and a submarine officer basic course. The first subs to get women each have about 15 officers and roughly 140 enlisted personnel.

Women make up 15 percent of the active duty Navy - there are 52,446 out of the force of 330,700.

(...)

 

[CougarKing]

An update: the first female USN officers who earned their dolphins will be posted to these SSBNs below.

SECNAV Announces Virginia-class Subs for Women

WASHINGTON -- The fast attack submarines USS Virginia (SSN 774) and USS Minnesota (SSN 783) have been selected as the initial two Virginia-class submarines to integrate female officers, announced Oct. 15.

A total of six female officers, two Supply Corps and four nuclear-trained, will report aboard no later than January 2015. Both submarines are homeported in Groton, Conn.

"Female officers serving aboard Virginia-class submarines is the next natural step to more fully integrate women into the submarine force," said Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus. "There are many extremely talented and capable women with a desire to succeed in this field and the submarine force will be stronger because of their efforts. Our Navy has proven over the years that one of our greatest advantages is our diversity. This is an advantage we should capitalize on across all platforms, including submarines."
(...)

Military.com

 

[cupper]

It was only a matter of time, see how the precedent was already set.

http://youtu.be/N2ttd48u0J0

 

[CougarKing]

In spite of what past opponents to integration said, it seems that female submariners are integrating well into an arm of the USN that was previously off-limits to them:

Military.com

First Female Officer Reports to Submarine USS Minnesota
Stars and Stripes | Jan 14, 2015 | by Steven Beardsley

The first woman to serve aboard a Navy fast-attack submarine has reported to the USS Minnesota. She is one of six officers expected to join fast-attack crews in the months ahead.

Two more women will report to the Minnesota by the end of January, with three more slated to join the USS Virginia in the spring, said Lt. Cmdr. Tommy Crosby, a spokesman for the Navy's Submarine Force Atlantic.
Integration of Virginia-class submarines comes three years into the Navy's effort to gradually bring female officers and enlisted into its undersea service.

Female officers first came aboard Ohio-class submarines in late 2011. As of last summer, more than 60 women were serving in 14 submarines.

(...SNIPPED)

The service says it will open positions for enlisted women on some Ohio-class submarines next year and for several Virginia-class subs in 2020. All future submarines will be designed for integrated crews, the Navy has said.
The Navy's integration plans call for women to make up 20 percent of the enlisted crews on already-integrated Ohio-class submarines by 2020.

(...SNIPPED)