world tolerance-Taliban destroying Statues

[kaspacanada]

It's sad that this is the state of world tolerance.  I mean, seriously, what is next.  Are these people going to declare that all other religions are illegal and declare war to destroy all evil things??  (the rest of the world??)  


Afghanistan begins destroying statues
WebPosted Fri Mar 2 02:20:18 2001
KABULM, AFGHANISTAN - Despite cries of outrage from other countries, Taliban soldiers have begun using everything from tanks to rocket launchers to destroy all the statues around Afghanistan.

The statues, including two fifth-century statues of Buddha carved into the side of a mountain, are being demolished because religious leaders in the country say they're contrary to Islam.

"The destruction work will be done by any means available to them," said Qadradullah Jamal, the Taliban's information minister.

"All the statues all over the country will be destroyed."

The destruction order was made by the Taliban's supreme leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar, because images, including statues, paintings and pictures, are forbidden under the Taliban.

"In view of the fatwa (religious edict) of prominent Afghan scholars and the verdict of the Afghan Supreme Court it has been decided to break down all statues/idols present in different parts of the country," wrote Omar in a decree.

"This is because these idols have been gods of infidels, who worshipped them, and these are respected even now and perhaps may be turned into gods again. The real God is only Allah, and all other false gods should be removed."

The two ancient Buddhas ? one 36 metres tall and the other 52 metres tall ? are located west of the capital city of Kabul. The larger Buddha is believed to be the tallest statue in the world of the Buddha standing, rather than sitting.

The main museum in Kabul also houses about 6,000 pieces of Buddhist art and other artwork. Those are scheduled for destruction as well.

The international community, from Afghanistan's closest ally, Pakistan, to the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, have pleaded with the country's rulers to preserve the works of art.


FROM FEB. 27, 2001: UNESCO pleads with Taliban to spare statues

"We hope the Afghan government will show the spirit of tolerance enjoined upon by Islam as well as respect for international sentiment in this regard," Pakistan said in a statement Thursday.

The United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) appealed earlier this week to spare the works of art, some of which are well over 1,000 years old.

And for UNESCO's Afghan expert Michael Berry, their impending destruction is an incalculable loss to the world's common cultural heritage.

The Taliban have threatened to destroy the two giant Buddhas before, and later changed their mind.

Berry sees that as a reason to hope.

"I think, yes, it is possible to plead with the representatives of this regime to not further distance themselves from what was once upon a time called the cultured opinion of mankind," he said.

The Russian, German and Indian governments have all joined the call to save the statues.

"These intentions cannot be judged otherwise than as an assault on the cultural and historical achievements of not only the Afghan people, but also of world civilization," the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

The Taliban foreign minister said Wednesday that the Islamic militia was not concerned with the international criticism.

The Taliban rule nearly 95 per cent of Afghanistan and believe in a strict brand of Islamic law.


Written by CBC News Online staff

 

[the patriot]

These people are complete idiots and are in the same league as Osami Bin-Laden. Why can‘t the powers that be deploy their "black-bag" operatives into Afganistan and get rid of these intolerant fools. Buddhism is one of the most peaceful faiths in the world. To damage statues that were built painstakingly by hand in a time where there was no sand blasting or construction equipment as we have today should be considered a serious crime. Furthermore, I wouldn‘t be surprised if Saddam Hussein is one hundred percent behind the destruction of these statues.

-the patriot-

 

[the patriot]

Even better, I wonder how these bastards would feel if let‘s just say the nuclear powers of NATO decided to drop a couple of nukes on MECCA!!!!! So much for Eid and the Haj....

-the patriot-

 

[RCA]

So it is okay to infringe on a nations sovernty as long as we disagree with them (mind you we are talking statues not ehnic cleasing). It‘s interesting that while the Talaban were fighting the russians we had no qualms about sending them money but when they don‘t play our game we get our knickers in a twist(sounds a lot like Castro and Cuba). Remember Oka when nobody could understand why a small peice of land couldn‘t become a golf course and could create so much hassle.

And please answer this- How is world tolerance extended when it is recomended that Mecca (one of the greatest religious sites) be bombed. That would be like bombing the Vatican (and anyone tell me with a straight face that nobody would retaiate against that.)

As for Saddium being behind it, I doubt it. The Talaban are Muslum fanatics and probably consider Hussain not fundermenatlist enough. (read heritic)

And while I‘m on this rant how come when they stripped women of all their rights nothing was said but when inanimate (and I admit very religious) objects are going to be destroyed people protest??????????prioities people

 

[the patriot]

Things have been said in protest when women were stripped of their rights in Afghanistan. One can refer to the Oxfam and Amnesty International websites. Women strip themselves in the name of their rights here in Canada at strip clubs in the name of the almighty dollar; are you complaining?!!!
As for statues being destroyed; yes it is a grave concern for those of the Buddhist faith. These are in fact the world‘s oldest Buddha statues and no ones doing a damn thing pro-actively to protect them. I think you would be upset if someone lit a torch to the Vatican or for that matter the "Shroud of Turin". Isn‘t the Shroud of Turin a useless rag that if disposed of, no one should cry over it (Statues are inanimate objects are they? I guess it‘s okay for Muslims in Jerusalem to demolish statues of Christ then..)?!! To top it off, Taliban rebels are fighting for Pakistan against India in Kashmir. For those that don‘t know their Commonwealth History, the Indians were our allies in our major wars and Peacekeeping initiatives. This is a slap in the face to the Indians and the Dalai Lama. I find it odd that Christianity can justify its Holy Crusades, yet no one will bear arms to protect Buddhism. No one argued about "a country‘s sovereignity" during the Crusades....... or have you forgotten that Islam was the enemy during that time?!!!

-the patriot-

 

[kaspacanada]

We bring up a topic and we seemingly argue with eachother about the details.

For any nation to disallow and not recognize that there are other faiths in the world is just straight wrong. Would we tolerate for one second if Christians like myself were to raid and destroy punjabi or sikh temples because we believe Christ to be the only savior of man? I don‘t even go to church but I do see the value in most religions. Most of them advocate good behavior. It is when these beliefs become so fanatical that problems arise. Fanatical religious groups coupled with extreme nationalistic behavior is a very dangerous combination. (as seen in Nazi Germany) When others are not tolerated in their differences, when people are not respected. In the second world war Jews were first stripped of their poitical and social rights before being stripped of everything else including their lives.

So where does it start and where does it end. Fanatical religious groups are no good to the world when they become violent and intolerant of other people. It has become a crime in that country to practice buddhism and the destruction of the statues and temples is only what we are hearing about now. It is possible that more may have happened to these people in the past or could conceivably happen to them in the future.

Even more possible is that intolerant and extremist arab nations may declare that all other faiths are not to be tolerated. (they have already done this in their countries - and they have that right) However, when it begins to affect the lives of people in a negative way, that is when the trouble begins. It does not matter what has happened before, it is about what people need to do to stop one society from infringing on the rights of other societies. At what expense are people willing to go before we recognize that we are all on this planet together and that we must learn to work with eachother to succeed? (Am I sounding too idealistic or dreamy)

Kudo‘s

 

[kaspacanada]

Quote "The real God is only Allah, and all other false gods should be removed."

That quote is as extreme as anything I could see. That is a perfect example of complete intolerance of extremist attitude. (although one can argue that Christian exremists have and continue to do the same things) I argue that all extremist movements are wrong no matter the religion. History shows us of the perils and dangers of extremist factions esspecially when grouped with nationalistic behavior and totalitarianism.

I am more worried about the potential of intolerant totalitarian nations grouping together against tolerant democratic countries. That the events unfolding around the world are leading us towards more major ethical confrontations. When rogue extremist leaders are in power and manipulating their peoples on the basis of religious biases, nationalism, hatred and grudges that have existed for hundreds and hundreds of years, that they are "feeding the fire" so to speak.


The possible outcome of these scenario‘s?

It is rumored that China is assisting Iraq in updating, installing and supporting new defence technology. Palestinians are praising Saddam Hussein for is intolerance of western civilization. Russia WILL fall in line behind China in event of military confrontation. Most arab nations will fall in line with the religious sectarianism when the ball stops rolling. African nations are a mess, fighting with eachother. (sounds a little like the Irish - I am of Irish decent and am not taking shots at them) Balkan nations with totalitarian leaders which have influence that is similar to the terrible events we saw unfold in the former Yugolsavia will side with whomever is against the United State and it‘s allies. The restrictions placed on Iraq‘s trade has created an entire generation of people who have very little skills and a tremedous grudge against western europe, the United States AND Canada.

I am not saying that we are heading towards war, I am simply stating that religious extremism has the potential to explode in our faces under specific forms of government. To not believe that nations that feel oppressed by western culture - or feel that they are on the side of the only true god(s) and feel all other cultures and religions intolerable - are not conspiring or could possibly be conspiring against what they see as their foe‘s is simply being ignorant of the potential for widespread conflict that exists in todays world and not simply by means of Osama Bin Ladens terrorist regime. (that is another threat to world security that has it‘s own reasons for existing)


(and I just joined reg force - lol)

Jeff

 

[Yard Ape]

You make it sound like they are all working together on one big scheme to destroy the western world as we know it. I doubt there is anything such elaborate conspiring going on. Many of these countries cannot cooperate with eachother, and many are too small and too far appart to work in concert. Stop fear-mongering. Yes many countries are run by less moral people than we would like, but paranoia is no approach to solving that.


Yard Ape

 

[kaspacanada]

I am not fearmongering, simply stating possible routes of conflict.

There isn‘t any widespread conspiracy and I never instituted that there was. Just that the possibility of alliances between nations that we feel is impossible could in fact become a possibility. The events in Pakistan are not isolated as we have seen this type off attitude throughout history. Hopefully they will not go any further than destroying statues.

To ignore possibilities is what dragged the "civilized" world into the first world war. :-(
People thought themselves too civilized and we continue to ignore possibilities.

Jeff

 

[ender]

The Taliban is an extremely intolerant and fundamentalist muslim sect. Many other muslims see thier interpritation of the Koran as almost heretical.

These people hate westerners. I‘m sure, if they had the capablity, they would declare war on us.

Watch out when they get NBC weapons.

 

[garb811]

Actually, they probably already do have access to BC weapons, and if you want to be really technical, N weapons as well.

Aum Shinri Kyo proved that anyone with a basic university level of chemistry can make a chemical agent, Sarin in this instance. Fortunately for most on the Tokyo subways they were still in the early stages of development and production and the agent used wasn‘t very pure due to their being rushed due to police pressure. The fact that they chose to simply puncture the bags with umbrellas and then let evaporation do the rest also contributed to the low casualty rate. If they had taken the time to place the bag into an air duct things would have been exponentially worse. It‘s not well known but they also used Sarin in aerosol form prior to the subway attack in Matsumoto, Japan when they mounted a large fan on the back of a truck and sprayed the agent into the air stream. Not bad for a bunch of cult freaks.

Basic mustard agents are also able to be produced rather easily. Look closely at the train cars going by the next time you‘re sitting at a rail crossing, or even at a transport truck on the road. You‘ll see that the chemical cars have the contents written on the outside, keep an eye out for neat ones like "chlorine", "ammonia", "hydrogen cyanide" and "phosgene". These were used in WWI and are still effective today, particularly if an act of terrorism were to make use of them. These are just a few of the many TICs out there that aren‘t so hard to get ahold of.

Biological agents are even easier once you get a sample of the agent you wish to use. Any factory that makes a culture (yeast etc) or any brewery etc can easily start churning out anthrax, coccidioidomycosis, malaria, cholera, salmonella, diphtheria...whoops! Most of these aren‘t so hard to get a sample of because they all exist in nature.

As for nuclear, you don‘t have to make a mushroom cloud to cause a disaster and that‘s about all I‘ll say about that...

 

[ender]

I think I meant long-range delivery systems...but you are right.
Terrorists can wreak havoc on us, and it would be nearly impossible to stop them without imposing intolerable restrictions on our civil liberties.

 

[Yard Ape]

What the US does not realize is that the real threat is not long range ballistic missles. It is Guy Terrorist carrying one of these weapons in his backpack through downtown "Bigcity USA."

However, terrorism is different from the guerilla and conventional warfare origionally suggested in this topic.

Yard Ape

 

[McG]

Giant Buddhas in Afghanistan destroyed by Taliban, aid workers say
KATHY GANNON
Ottawa Citizen Online, 12 Mar 01

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - The Taliban religious militia has completely demolished two giant statues of Buddha hewn from a cliff face in central Afghanistan, international aid workers said Sunday, despite desperate pleas from abroad to spare the third- and fifth-century relics.

The destruction was ordered late last month by the Taliban, hard-line Muslims who rule most of Afghanistan and say statues are idolatrous. Despite the international outcry, the Taliban appeared Sunday to have obliterated both statues, one of which was believed to be the world‘s tallest standing Buddha.

Taliban Foreign Minister Wakil Ahmed Muttawakil told UN Secretary General Kofi Annan during a meeting Sunday in neighbouring Pakistan that there was nothing left of the statues, according to an international aid worker who attended the talks.

At a news conference after the talks, Annan refused to confirm the total destruction of the soaring Buddhas but said Muttawakil had told him "all the movable statues have been destroyed," referring to smaller Buddhist monuments.

The destruction of the two giant Buddhas was corroborated by Taliban officials in southern Afghanistan and by an aid worker who said his information came from witnesses in the area.

The same aid worker said the statues were reduced to rubble at the foot of the mountain where they had stood for centuries, adding that the Taliban‘s defence minister oversaw the destruction.

"The destruction was professionally done," he said. The larger statue, about 52 metres tall, was blown up Thursday with the use of explosives, and the smaller one, about 37 metres tall, was destroyed the following day.

It has been impossible to independently verify the reports because the Taliban have refused to allow anyone in the Bamiyan Valley area, where the statues stood.

After meeting with Annan, the Taliban foreign minister was asked whether the demolition had been completed. "There might not be so much left," he told reporters, without elaborating.

"This is totally an internal religious edict that has been excessively exaggerated in the outside world," Muttawakil said at a news conference.

On Saturday, the Taliban had said the statues were 80 per cent destroyed.

Abdul Hai Muttmain, a spokesman for the Taliban‘s reclusive leader, told The Associated Press that delegations pleading for preservation were too late: The statues were almost gone.

"Everyone is coming now is too late. We have destroyed 80 per cent of the statues. There is only a small amount left and we will destroy that soon," Muttmain said.

Upon his arrival in Pakistan on Saturday, Annan said he would convey the world‘s outrage at the destruction. By Sunday, it appeared to be too late.

Relations between the United Nations and the Taliban have never been good, and they have worsened with fresh sanctions imposed in January to press for the extradition of suspected terrorist Osama bin Laden. The Taliban have refused to hand him over.

Now, the outcry to save the two giant Buddhas has spread worldwide.

Predominantly Buddhist nations like Japan and Sri Lanka have made pleas. The UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) sent a special envoy from Paris, Pierre Lafrance, to try to get the Taliban to rescind their order.

The Taliban‘s Radio Shariat on Saturday said there would be no change to the order. The statues violate the tenets of Islam as laid out in the Qur‘an, the Muslim holy book, the broadcast said.

Islamic nations also expressed their outrage at the destruction. Egypt sent its chief Muslim cleric Grand Mufti Nasr Farid Wasel to Afghanistan to appeal to the Taliban to change their order.

 

[NavalGent]

 Fanatical religious groups coupled with extreme nationalistic behavior is a very dangerous combination.

These people hate westerners.  I'm sure, if they had the capablity, they would declare war on us.

Relations between the United Nations and the Taliban...have worsened with fresh sanctions imposed in January to press for the extradition of suspected terrorist Osama bin Laden. The Taliban have refused to hand him over.

I was just looking through ancient posts, and I found this one. It's kinda neat looking back at discussions like this. I find it kind of strange that nobody started it up again in the days after 9/11.

 

[Dare]

What the US does not realize is that the real threat is not long range ballistic missles.  It is Guy Terrorist carrying one of these weapons in his backpack through downtown "Bigcity USA."

However, terrorism is different from the guerilla and conventional warfare origionally suggested in this topic.

  Yard Ape

What makes you think the US does not realize the threat of a portable nuclear weapon? I believe that threat has been realized for at least a few decades now.

 

[Infanteer]

You might not of noticed that the post is almost 5 years old and Yard Ape is (unfortunately) no longer a member here.

 

[Dare]

You might not of noticed that the post is almost 5 years old and Yard Ape is (unfortunately) no longer a member here.

*Just* noticed that. Feelin pretty dumb. I think I'll go watch TV after I hide my retreat in deftly placed emoticons. :dontpanic:

:-X
Oi.