Yikes ! (STAT)

[Farmboy]

Che, yes I do know moderaters position since I am one on another site, and frequent many other forums. I have never seen a moderator belittle someone and then lock the thread.

Slim, alot of the best shooters are civilian, and it is very easy for civilian to be better than the military. I myself shoot over 80 rounds a month just throught my .300WM, then if I factor in my .308, .223, .22, shotguns and the ORA and local sniper matches I probably shoot more than 80% of the military. So yeah I still back up my statements, you can back up yours though by coming out to the Listowel Counter Sniper Match Apr. 24.

Michael, quite right.

 

[Slim]

Originally posted by Farmboy:
[qb] Che, yes I do know moderaters position since I am one on another site, and frequent many other forums. I have never seen a moderator belittle someone and then lock the thread.

Slim, alot of the best shooters are civilian, and it is very easy for civilian to be better than the military. I myself shoot over 80 rounds a month just throught my .300WM, then if I factor in my .308, .223, .22, shotguns and the ORA and local sniper matches I probably shoot more than 80% of the military. So yeah I still back up my statements, you can back up yours though by coming out to the Listowel Counter Sniper Match Apr. 24.

Michael, quite right. [/qb]

Would you like me to bring all of the gold medals I have earned for pistol and rifle shooting? Or how about C7,C8,C9,C6,C5,C3,C2,C1,Sterling 9mm, KarG, M72 and the list goes on.

And be advised, bench resting your hand howitzer, then standing up to gab with a bunch of other geeks about how good you all are, is not quite the same as shooting under threat or in a military enviorment.

And I wouldn‘t go around calling yourself a sniper either...A real one might read your comments and take offence...or are you better than them too?!

 

[muskrat89]

I myself shoot over 80 rounds a month just throught my .300WM, then if I factor in my .308, .223, .22, shotguns and the ORA and local sniper matches I probably shoot more than 80% of the military. So yeah I still back up my statements, you can back up yours though by coming out to the Listowel Counter Sniper Match Apr. 24.

Then it‘s fairly safe to say that you are not, primarily, a gopher hunter. If you meant to say that you, based on your interest/pastime/hobby have more experience than many military people.... than that is what you should have said.

 

[1feral1]

I have been sitting back reading some of these posts, and I am beginnig to wonder. There is more to soldiering than shooting a rifle.

Having someone compare their civvy hobby to a professional soldier‘s weapons handling and shooting skills is fact, quite ouragous.

How can ya‘s go on and compare civ/mil with all this un-needed private boasting. 80rds a month of some civvy calibre plus other stuff is a joke, sorry but it is. Good for a hobby though, can‘t knock that , nor would I. I would encourage as much civvy shooting as one can take.

What this tells me is not much experience in the trade, the forces, and in general, a lack of maturity.

I am like others on here, I am a professional soldier, myself an armourer by trade (and former Infanteer), and I love my work.

I often shoot a mininum of 900rds of 5.56 x 45mm F1 ball a week, and then there is other weapons too. Infact I shoot so much I have to get my blood tested for lead every 12 months.

Civvy bench shooting or ‘civvy counter sniper matches‘ is a far cry form pan-climatic fire and movement, and hitting tgts consistantly (under a variety of pressures), and consisivly at Section, Platoon or Coy level, after running about for distances unknown when its 45C in the shade.

Its about teamwork and fighting thru the objective, and getting everyone thru unhurt. Its about trusting your mates who may be behind you, ‘off safe‘ with a loaded IW or MG.

Proper marksmanship principles, and weapons handling are learned, not born with, although some people will tend to have a natural skill which needs enhancing.

There are other factors from appropiate safety handling, general knowledge, command and control, and more serious things too which I will not bother to touch on.

I have owned guns since I was 9 yrs old. I have competed in international matches, and civvy IPSC etc over 25 years.

The military forces even have the GD generic police (and RCMP) beat when it comes to weapons handling. Often they qualifiy once a yr.

Shooting civvy is way different form military, and at anything, its just a hobby, where shooting for me, and others here on this site, it is our job and way of life. I can‘t even comprehend to compare a ‘civvy‘ hobby with the real world, sorry.

So, boys, pull your heads in and stop making fools of yourselves.

Time to lock up this thread.

OUT,

Wes

 

[Slim]

Thanks Wes

You said what I wanted to get across...The young one got my blood up.

Slim

 

[1feral1]

We were all young once, and I can only describe myself as a 21 yr old locked in a 44 yr old body.

Hopefully the blokes in question will take heed and not offence to what I had to say.

After all we are all on the same side.

Cheers and beers,

Wes

 

[winchable]

Che, yes I do know moderaters position since I am one on another site, and frequent many other forums. I have never seen a moderator belittle someone and then lock the thread.

Sorry to stir this up again, I just got in and re-read the thread and felt need to bring the thread back to topic, and continue it because it is a valid point.

Locking threads that waste bandwidth is a valid method of conserving bandwidth by preventing a topic from spiraling into oblivion, or breaking down into a pee-pee match.
As for belittling, you say belittle we say set examples in a proactive manner. There have been in the past, many very very seriously problematic posters who have brought the threads to their knees and done much more harm then good.

Moderators who have been here long enough are good enough so that we can pick out problem posters in their first few messages, and mostly as a defense mechanism sort them out in what some might call a belittling manner, this much is not going to change about the board.

It‘s not us trying to feel big, it‘s not us being sadistic, it‘s protecting the site from people who put lewd pictures in their avatars or post constantly taking up bandwidth with questions about how they can be a sniper (which is easy enough to find if searched for.)
Rest assured if you find something a moderator does to be rude or belittling, one instance of this will (99% of the time) prevent 20 other posters creating nonsense threads, using all capitals to post and other general nettiquete offences, mouthing off to anyone and everyone who tries to discuss.


I am guessing that your site you moderate on is not a military site, this site is, there is a certain amount of discipline that is maintained on this site as a result of the real profession of the moderators and to keep out damaging posters.

I am not going to defend the actions or persona‘s of the other site moderators, as I think anything we do on this site (be it seemingly rude sometimes) contributes to the overall professionalism of the board in the long run.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Interesting debate. I think a great point was brought up. Being a good shooter doesnt make you a good soldier. It bothers me to see how many infantry soldiers can‘t pass their pwt and shoot poorly, i blame the army for not giving them enough practice. I would still rather a good soldier whos an OK shot than someone whos a great shot and can‘t even make a march out to a shooting rage because their so out of shape. Or get lost in the woods.
I‘m lucky because i‘ve been shooting since i was 8. Theres lots of people out there who can grab a rifle, lay down on the ground rest the rifle on a sand bag, bench or whatever and shoot very very good. Everyones good at something right? Im sure many civilians (*Who are interested in shooting*) can shoot just as good if not better then many soldiers because they get more practice. Like it was also said, theres a big difference between shooting unmoving targets on a sunny day at a range and shooting in a military type enviroment. ie section attacks, jungle lanes etc.. In a way i think your almost comparing apples and oranges. I‘m a pretty good shooter myself, i supose my biggest claim to fame is a few dinky best shot awards and always scoring perfect on the ptw3. (A test where you dont just lay down and fire but have to A) run and be in shape, B) use different firing positions and C) shoot at different types of targets, some popping up and down. Mentioned for the civies who dont know.) I get a little skeptical around people who make a point of telling others how good/tough/smart they are when first meeting them, just a personal thing.

Farmboy were those pictures on here of the .300 and .308 i believe (from another post) yours? Either way those were some beautiful rifles. How does someone put a picture into a thread like that?

 

[Franko]

Good points Wes and Ghost....

I‘m not going to say another word...don‘t want to "belittle" anyone.

April 24th? Hmmmmmmmm

Have to see if I‘m IN THE FIELD or ON THE RANGES firing Coyote.

Regards

 

[Franko]

Originally posted by Farmboy:
[qb] Slim, alot of the best shooters are civilian, and it is very easy for civilian to be better than the military. I myself shoot over 80 rounds a month just throught my .300WM, then if I factor in my .308, .223, .22, shotguns and the ORA and local sniper matches I probably shoot more than 80% of the military. So yeah I still back up my statements, you can back up yours though by coming out to the Listowel Counter Sniper Match Apr. 24. [/qb]

80 rounds a month? Not very much if you ask me.
Where is this and what is the max range of the range? Just currious....

Might come out for a bit of fun.

Slim...you wanna come to? Get in some real LONG distance shooting in? Like back in the day, as the youngins like to say....

Regards

 

[Farmboy]

Quite a few good points made by everyone. Also alot of assumptions made as well.

Yes the site I moderate is a BMQ site that has never has a thread locked or a post erased (could be as well that we all know each other).

I did not realize this site had a bandwidth problem so I can understand locking threads for that purpose.

My age was obviously assumed because of the nature of my posts. I‘m 30 by the way, doing BMQ.

No your right good shooting does not make a good soldier, however all I had said was alot of kids and adults who shoot groundhogs with .22s have more firearm knowledge than alot of CF members.

Yes I would love to take any out to the ranges to shoot. The more people who enjoy it the better. I shoot at Oshawas Skeet and Gun Club out to 300yds and at Borden with the ORA out to 800yds. Finding a private club with a range past 300yds is a wee bit difficult though.

80 rounds of ONLY .300WM is alot if the military is not paying for it

Yes those are my rifles, thanks. To put a pic in a thread just put

at the end with no spaces. It would look like this

Yes I get skeptical to of people telling me how good they are, however I was responding to questions about my knowledge and never said I good, just that I shot alot.

This here would be doing that

 

[Franko]

I too get sceptacle with some of the guys who mouth off about their skills. Usually inviting them to the Batoche range in Gagetown and having them shoot at the 400m mark for a warm up and pushing back to the 800m shuts them up real fast....Slim knows what I‘m talking about.

We just take offense to people who show little or no respect to the troops that actually know how to ply their craft and do so on a regular basis. I personally know a few guys who have done some far out shooting on a 2 way range...not going to name names, but they are here on this site, lurking, not doing alot of posting.

Most of the other elements don‘t know what we do or how we do it....please don‘t lump us in with them. The troops that do reply in an angry form are usually, for the most part pissed at guys who "talk the talk" and haven‘t served a minute in an actual combat unit.

Give it a few years and you‘ll see what I mean

Regards

 

[Slim]

Originally posted by Franko:
Slim...you wanna come to? Get in some real LONG distance shooting in? Like back in the day, as the youngins like to say....
Regards [/QB]

Hey Franko

Now you know I am primarily a "pistol" guy and all of my recent shooting is with a pistol.(I use a Glock now, not the difficult old BHP) Having said that I would long to go out and use the long guns again...kind of miss it.

Let me know when...

Slim
:threat:

 

[combat_medic]

Farmboy: From your original post on this thread, I thought you had a very good point, and I and others have tried to address it in the best way we could.

From there, you appear to have turned into another one of the wannabes that we all rile against. Your statements about how you‘re a better shot than most of the CF for starters. I‘ve spent a fair bit of time on both civilian and military ranges, and I can say that there is no comparison to be made. Civvies spend thousands of dollars on some high-speed, low drag rifle, then sandbag the weapon in place, fire one round at a time, and are adjusting with a high powered spotting scope. They can make any customization to their own weapons, buy or make the best ammo possible, and never have to move from their position.

Compare this to a soldier. They‘re all shooting the same weapon and the same ammo (manufactured by the lowest bidder), cannot customize anything, for the most part, and are firing in unsupported positions, including prone, kneeling and standing. They often are running at a full sprint before firing, and have to control fire on semi and fully automatic.

No comparison.

One kid on my basic was talking crap about how he was such a fantastic shot, and all the awards he won both civvie side and in cadets. With a C7 and issue ammo, he couldn‘t hit the broad side of a barn.

Your moderating on a site full of basic training buddies is also not lending much credence to your "experience."

Several of the moderators and "old boys" on this forum have given you some pretty good advice. Take it for what it‘s worth, but I would lay off your civilian shooting experience for the time being, as this thread is turning into a pissing match as well.

 

[Korus]

Usually inviting them to the Batoche range in Gagetown and having them shoot at the 400m mark for a warm up and pushing back to the 800m shuts them up real fast....

Wow.. I‘d love to give something like that a shot (no pun intended) sometime.. I‘ve never done any long range shooting, just the C7 PWT. All my civvie shooting experience has been at short ranges. When I‘m done with Uni (read: can afford to) I want to start doing a lot more shooting on civvie side, as a hobby.

Sorry for the tangent there...

 

[Farmboy]

Your statements about how you‘re a better shot than most of the CF for starters.

If you could point to were I said this...

Stop reading more into what I say and just read what I wrote.

 

[combat_medic]

"You would agree however that kids and adults that have shot gophers with their .22s probably have more firearm and shooting knowledge than the majority of the Reserves if not the Reg. force."

"Slim, alot of the best shooters are civilian, and it is very easy for civilian to be better than the military. I myself shoot over 80 rounds a month just throught my .300WM, then if I factor in my .308, .223, .22, shotguns and the ORA and local sniper matches I probably shoot more than 80% of the military. So yeah I still back up my statements, you can back up yours though by coming out to the Listowel Counter Sniper Match Apr. 24."

Seems a lot of machismo in both of these statements.

 

[1feral1]

The C7, F88IW and other 5.56 x 45mm wpns. No long range shooting for these, as look at the effective range of the rifle itself.

In the days of the C1, I remember all too well the 600 metre run downs, with from 100 metres to 25 metres, walking the last bit with firing 1 shot on every 5th step, all of course well keeping ones dressing.

Gone are those days, with that ‘1964 patttern webbing‘ with no mag pouches, and that silly grenade pouch.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Slim]

Originally posted by Farmboy:
[qb]

Your statements about how you‘re a better shot than most of the CF for starters.

If you could point to were I said this...

Stop reading more into what I say and just read what I wrote. [/qb]

You‘re starting to get multiple messages from different people all with a common thread.

Military shooting is not sandbagging your super-customized-rocketlaunching-whatever and plinking one round every five minutes. And saying a bunch of Saturday afternoon shooters can outperform the military at their own game is ridiculous. You‘re not a soldier yet (no matter what the recruiting centre has told you!) so wait and see what sort of skill set is out there before you go around bragging like a 12 year old kid about how great you all are. What sort of reply did you expect in a forum full of professinal soldiers?!

And listen to Combat_medic...She has put some excellent points forward that you seem determined not to listen to...Maybe you should as she IS a soldier...

 

[crhc]

Unfortunately us folk that carry weapons for our profession don‘t get to shot as much as we should.

An old cop told me " We don‘t train enough on the issued equipement we use the least but will have the greatest impact on our life if we use it."