Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition

[Altair]

Yea maybe.
Trudeau definitely hasn't set a precedent where he uses a tragedy to smash through something very tenuously related right?

Man suspected of killing Canadian Muslim family was motivated by hate -police

A man accused of killing four members of a Canadian Muslim family by running them over in his pickup truck, targeted them in an attack motivated by hate, police said on Monday.

www.reuters.com

"There is evidence that this was a planned, premeditated act, motivated by hate," Detective Superintendent Paul Waight of the London police department told reporters.

I don't know, does this sound like PM Trudeau talking out of his ass, or does this sound like the police themselves stating what they have evidence of?

I watched the Alec Minassian interrogation, he didn't beat around the bush when questioned by police about his motives and whether he did it, he was up front if not proud of what he had done. One wouldn't have needed a full forensic investigation of his social media to figure out what was what in that case, it might be the same here. Or maybe he left a note about what he was going to do in case he died in the attempt.

I don't think the police would be saying it was a premeditated act motivated by hate if there wasn't evidence of that, and I don't think PM Trudeau would be going out on a limb saying this was a terrorist act if there was any ambiguity about it

 

[OldSolduer]

According to this article it appears that the alleged killer lived alone, played loud computer games and got into arguments with his neighbours:



Link

If Islamic terrorists can be inspired by Islamic Imams preaching hate then our far right csm be inspired by neo Nazis etc.
I’d love to see the psych profile on this guy, I can imagine his coworkers said he was a bit off and got in heated arguments with him.

and FYI the PM is after votes.

 

[Altair]

Never let a catastrophe go to waste. I’m certain this is what JT is hearing from his voices in the PMO

4 Muslim Canadians died on a walk because one POS hates Muslims.

I personally don't see any attempt by the gov to push any agenda. There is a serious problem in Canada regarding targeted attacks on Muslim Canadians. We are not that far removed from the mosque shooting in Quebec City in 2017.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Do Muslims tend to fall into either left or right wings?

They seem to be more conservative/traditionalist than the average Westerner. As a group (and I realize that no group is monolithic), they tend to be more, and more seriously, religious.

Would what we normally consider to be terrorist activities committed by Islamists then, also, be considered "far right"?

I stumbled across something a few weeks ago that mentioned that such acts are also listed as "far-right" by some US agencies but did not investigate further and cannot remember the source.

I keep seeing "far-right hate groups" and "white supremacists" being held up as the ultimate boogeymen by certain politicians and media types, but little evidence of actual dangerous activity. I am far more concerned about the left-wing violence that I see - Antifa and BLM in particular.

I am also rather sceptical about rising rates of anti-semitism being attributed to "far-right"/"white supremacist" groups, when this rise seems to coincide with increasing numbers of Muslim immigrants in many areas - they are not exactly fans of Judaism.

There are violent extremists in any identifiable group, but it is only fashionable to go after one.

The radical Islamist's play the victim card until they are strong enough to throw their weight around, their first target is always the Muslims who don't want to follow their rules. It's later on the LGBTQ will realize they are a target, but only after it's to late. The disconnect from the Left about the Islamists stated objectives is mind boggling.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

4 Muslim Canadians died on a walk because one POS hates Muslims.

I personally don't see any attempt by the gov to push any agenda. There is a serious problem in Canada regarding targeted attacks on Muslim Canadians. We are not that far removed from the mosque shooting in Quebec City in 2017.

Yet I witnessed their non-Muslim neighbours in tears about the event and most of the people leaving flowers are not Muslims. Your going to get POS everywhere you go and in every culture and country.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Dealing with crime and terrorism isn't an either/or proposition. All the bad apples merit attention and, when appropriate, consequences.

 

[Altair]

Yet I witnessed their non-Muslim neighbours in tears about the event and most of the people leaving flowers are not Muslims.

Yes, because the large majority of people are good decent people. But lets not ignore that there is a segment of the population, in this case those amongst the far right, who are targeting Muslims. The shooter in Quebec city and the shooter in New Zealand were both influenced by the far right.

Your going to get POS everywhere you go and in every culture and country.

Yes, but if they are congregating in a certain community I see no problem calling a spade a spade.

Post 9-11 people said that the Muslim community had to report on the extremists, and I don't think that was a issue. And the Muslim community largely responded and did just that.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Man suspected of killing Canadian Muslim family was motivated by hate -police

A man accused of killing four members of a Canadian Muslim family by running them over in his pickup truck, targeted them in an attack motivated by hate, police said on Monday.

www.reuters.com

I don't know, does this sound like PM Trudeau talking out of his ass, or does this sound like the police themselves stating what they have evidence of?

Not to appear like I'm deflecting here but I remember not too long ago a certain Toronto detective talking about how most guns used in crimes in Toronto were sourced from break and enters into lawful gun owner's homes. That was challenged and "the detective" quickly disapeared...

Within 24 hours the police had proof this guy, who apparently "does not have a criminal record and is not known to be a member of any hate groups, but was odd", made this attack was motivate by hate. Anti-muslim.

Okay.

Within 48 hours the PM was launching with promises to combat online (and offline) hate-groups (even though this guy had little online footprint)

Yea. I'm not defending this POS in the least but I'm also very curious about all this proof that enabled the PM to move quickly. I guess it's been already decided he wasn't just mentally ill right?

 

[Loachman]

And the FBI,

Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition

No. No it’s not, unfortunately. Why would it not happen here too? I wish all the best to the police who will be turning over every stone to rip this little shit’s life apart right now, and I hope they get sufficient evidence of the ideological element necessary to support terrorism charges on...

army.ca

I do not trust Wray or Mayorkas at all, and I still see no "far-right" violence that compares to even a tiny fraction of the violence committed by Antifa and BLM supporters.

I don't see any remotely-comparable Islamist violence in the US of late, either.

And there were leftist elements in the crowd at the US Capitol on 6 January as well. It was not a one-sided mob, and there are political interests at play so I do not expect to see a whole lot of truth any time soon.

My first thought when it occurred was "Reichstag Fire". It had an all-too-convenient ring to it.

I am slowly working my way through the 128-page US Senate "Examining the U.S. Capitol Attack" report, but it'll take me a bit of time to finish.

 

[Altair]

Not to appear like I'm deflecting here but I remember not too long ago a certain Toronto detective talking about how most guns used in crimes in Toronto were sourced from break and enters into lawful gun owner's homes. That was challenged and "the detective" quickly disapeared...

Yes, bad apples everywhere. But after the Toronto van attack the police were similarly confident within a few hours.

Within 24 hours the police had proof this guy, who apparently "does not have a criminal record and is not known to be a member of any hate groups, but was odd", made this attack was motivate dby hate. Anti-muslim.

Alec Minassian didn't have a criminal record record, but he spilled his guts within minutes of being interrogated. If this current suspect did the same, or left a note, are the police supposed to ignore it?

Okay.

Within 48 hours the PM was launching with promises to combat online (and offline) hate-groups (even though this guy had little online footprint)

Yea. I'm not defending this POS in the least but I'm also very curious about all this proof that enabled the PM to move quickly. I guess it's been already decided he wasn't just mentally ill right?

If he has no history of mental health and isn't presenting as someone with mental health issues causing this, then yeah, it could be rapidly determined.

 

[Loachman]

4 Muslim Canadians died on a walk because one POS hates Muslims.

I personally don't see any attempt by the gov to push any agenda. There is a serious problem in Canada regarding targeted attacks on Muslim Canadians. We are not that far removed from the mosque shooting in Quebec City in 2017.

Yes. "One POS". No sign of group activity, though, yet Trudeau launched off wildly again as is his custom.

He had exactly the same reaction when a Muslim girl claimed that a bunch of Islamophobic boys tore off her hijab a few years ago. It eventually turned out to be a hoax, yet he did not apologize for his over-reaction.

A responsible leader - and I really, really wish that we had one - would offer condolences to the family (what remains of it) and community and promise to determine exactly what happened, see what could be done to reduce the chances of recurrence, and punish the attacker to the maximum extent possible (a court's decision, ultimately, I know).

But he chooses to posture, and signal his virtue (sadly lacking in reality), stir a pot that needs no more stirring, and incite division.

And he'll probably find some way to use it to ban more guns, as well.

 

[lenaitch]

Yea. I'm not defending this POS in the least but I'm also very curious about all this proof that enabled the PM to move quickly. I guess it's been already decided he wasn't just mentally ill right?

Which will likely be his defence angle, like Mennasian.

I doubt the PM has any inside knowledge; he will be going off public feeds. The police would be nuts to take a call from the PMO and disclose evidence.

The dude may well have bared his soul while he was assisting the police in their inquiries (as the British say) but they can't call it a win and head for a beer.

The police have to say something credible that isn't incorrect. "Evidence of" is a good response.

 

[Underway]

Yea. I'm not defending this POS in the least but I'm also very curious about all this proof that enabled the PM to move quickly. I guess it's been already decided he wasn't just mentally ill right?

Doesn't really matter does it. Mentally ill can also be motivated by hate. The police have evidence the deed was planned and the family itself was targeted according to that plan. I have confidence that the police were able to figure out what was going on here.

I'm also not going to use this to create some sort of twisted confirmation bias to justify or denounce a political party/ stance/ media.

 

[Altair]

I do not trust Wray or Mayorkas at all, and I still see no "far-right" violence that compares to even a tiny fraction of the violence committed by Antifa and BLM supporters.

Really?

23 dead in El Paso walmart shooting targeting immigrants

8 of Asian American women dead in Atlanta recently.

Please show me the body count of antifa in the same time frame

 

[Altair]

Yes. "One POS". No sign of group activity, though, yet Trudeau launched off wildly again as is his custom.

He had exactly the same reaction when a Muslim girl claimed that a bunch of Islamophobic boys tore off her hijab a few years ago. It eventually turned out to be a hoax, yet he did not apologize for his over-reaction.

A responsible leader - and I really, really wish that we had one - would offer condolences to the family (what remains of it) and community and promise to determine exactly what happened, see what could be done to reduce the chances of recurrence, and punish the attacker to the maximum extent possible (a court's decision, ultimately, I know).

But he chooses to posture, and signal his virtue (sadly lacking in reality), stir a pot that needs no more stirring, and incite division.

And he'll probably find some way to use it to ban more guns, as well.

I dunno,I think your bias is showing at this point.

ISIL had a period of lone wolf attacks and that was just called Islamic terrorism. Nobody had any qualms about politicians describing it as such.

Now we have a wave of lone wolf attacks by those who frequent the far right. I have no issue with calling a spade a spade.

 

[lenaitch]

Yes, bad apples everywhere. But after the Toronto van attack the police were similarly confident within a few hours.

Alec Minassian didn't have a criminal record record, but he spilled his guts within minutes of being interrogated. If this current suspect did the same, or left a note, are the police supposed to ignore it?

If he has no history of mental health and isn't presenting as someone with mental health issues causing this, then yeah, it could be rapidly determined.

Menassian did have a history of mental health issues, just not to the extent that the court considered to be Not Criminally Responsible.

History always starts somewhere. Are you saying that there is 'a look' to mental illness'? A rapid roadside test? Cool. Funny how the courts usually remand an accused to a team of professionals for a month or more.

 

[Loachman]

Really?

23 dead in El Paso walmart shooting targeting immigrants

8 of Asian American women dead in Atlanta recently.

Please show me the body count of antifa in the same time frame

At least a couple of dozen people died in BLM/Antifa riots in major cities in the US last year, and many police were seriously injured. Insured damages exceeded a billion dollars. I've seen no estimate on uninsured damage, but would imagine it to be far higher.

There are always going to be lone extremist nutbars, but individual and herd dynamics are not the same.

The subhuman who murdered those eight people - six of whom, not eight, were Asian women also stated his reason, which was his "sex addiction".

 

[Altair]

Menassian did have a history of mental health issues, just not to the extent that the court considered to be Not Criminally Responsible.

History always starts somewhere. Are you saying that there is 'a look' to mental illness'? A rapid roadside test? Cool. Funny how the courts usually remand an accused to a team of professionals for a month or more.

There is a community in mourning, feeling attacked, fearing to do things a basic as going for a walk, going to a place of religious worship for the sole reason that they are Muslim.

Do you really think this community needs the PM to wait a damn month to hear what they know to be self evident?

 

[Altair]

At least a couple of dozen people died in BLM/Antifa riots in major cities in the US last year, and many police were seriously injured. Insured damages exceeded a billion dollars. I've seen no estimate on uninsured damage, but would imagine it to be far higher.

There are always going to be lone extremist nutbars, but individual and herd dynamics are not the same.

The subhuman who murdered those eight people - six of whom, not eight, were Asian women also stated his reason, which was his "sex addiction".

While I have every sympathy for lives lost to any group, let's not start to equate people being killed to property damage.

 

[Loachman]

I dunno,I think your bias is showing at this point.

ISIL had a period of lone wolf attacks and that was just called Islamic terrorism. Nobody had any qualms about politicians describing it as such.

Now we have a wave of lone wolf attacks by those who frequent the far right. I have no issue with calling a spade a spade.

They also had the tendency to claim responsibility when there was no proven direct affiliation or membership, just to puff themselves up.

And I am not sure where the "right" label comes from, other than as a purely prejudicial term.

I consider myself to be right-leaning in many ways, yet have a deep aversion to any form of extremism. So-called "far-right" extremists are not merely extensions of true conservatives, but off in a world of their own.

White supremacists are oft claimed to be "far-right", yet groups such as the KKK originated within what is now the Democrat party, which is on the left side of the spectrum.

Democrat Senator Robert Byrd, who remained a Senator until his death in 2010, was a prominent Klan supporter in his younger days, and there is some doubt that he ever fully ceased to support the KKK.