Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????

[brihard]

True but if we get it right, especially factoring in climate change, a LNG or oil terminal in or around Churchill would be an economic boom to the local economy. The jobs created for FN could help lift many bands into higher income thresholds. However it would need to be done right via consultation

I don’t just mean regarding the port, I mean the entire venture of a sovereign prairie Canada. Given that the treaties are with the crown, not with the provinces, I remain convinced that sovereigntists want to simply ignore the question of the indigenous because it becomes damnably complicated and awkward as soon as someone puts that on the table.

I will maintain my conviction that a separation of some or all of the prairies is a fantasy, and will never be a reality.

 

[PuckChaser]

I will maintain my conviction that a separation of some or all of the prairies is a fantasy, and will never be a reality.

Just like Quebec Nationalism, but we indulge that fantasy on a daily basis.

 

[Kirkhill]

One of the questions asked during the run-up to the 95 referendum (and after) was "Why was Canada divisible, but Quebec borders were considered sacrosanct/inviolable? Why does the 905 region, which is vastly different in political thinking, be the main determinant in election after election.? I get it that one person, one vote, and that urban regions have more people, in a first past the post system. I think we all acknowledge that the urban/rural divide is real, which means that rural will likely always lose to urban. Why should that not have been the principle applied in a Quebec separation scenario?

Perhaps the PM, after looking at the polls in 2017, decided to walk away from proportional representation, and realize that he had a good thing going.

I think if you take a look Indigenous lands, when recognized have traditional boundaries that follow terrain features: rivers, valleys, ridgelines, swamp boundaries.... Settler lands are defined by administrative boundaries, straight lines and right angles plunked down in the middle of no place by somebody with a map. Those boundaries have yet to be debated in the same courts as the Eurasian and Indigenous boundaries.

That debate has yet to happen. Nothing is indivisible and forever is a long time.

 

[brihard]

Just like Quebec Nationalism, but we indulge that fantasy on a daily basis.

I differentiate ‘nationalism’ from ‘sovereignty’. The latter is the fantasy arising out of the former.

 

[RangerRay]

About politics in British Columbia…

Polling has consistently shown that British Columbians support pipelines. The reason the NDP fought against (and lost) Trans Mountain was because they were propped up by the Greens at the time. The Greens made opposition to Trans Mountain a condition for support. Before that, they favoured Trans Mountain over other proposals.

Also, it is a fallacy that BC is some kind of left-wing utopia (not withstanding large vocal pockets that make it seem otherwise). Having said that, it is not “conservative” either. Since the 1940’s, BC has been led by free-enterprise coalitions of Liberals and Conservatives (including during Socred and BC Liberals). Even WAC Bennett was not more socially conservative than the mainstream at the time. While the coalition embraces restraint, deregulation and privatization, they avoid social issues like the plague. They often forget that free-enterprise capitalism does not equal crony capitalism.

The NDP win when the coalition collapses. Horgan’s first victory was because people tired of the corrupt stench of the Campbell/Clark years. His second victory was due to moderate pragmatic governance (not withstanding illogical opposition to Trans Mountain) and the BC Liberals failing to renew themselves. They chose a Gordon Campbell clone with less charisma when they could have chosen the dynamic and popular former mayor of Surrey.

Until recently, it was a 60/40 Lib-Con/NDP split. Will the BC Liberals find a new leader that can reunite their coalition? Dunno.

British Columbians’ attitude towards the rest of Canada would that of bemused disinterest. They have no desire to separate but view the going’s on in the rest of the country no different as those to the south of us.

 

[MilEME09]

I differentiate ‘nationalism’ from ‘sovereignty’. The latter is the fantasy arising out of the former.

Part of the issue is we keep catering to Quebec on issues like language, resources issues, etc..

Constitution puts out that cross border infrastructure like pipelines is federal, but yet if Quebec says no suddenly we have to listen, but if BC says no, keeps going.

We let them get away with hypocrisy every day, it's time to Crack the whip, we all have brought up the Feds over reaching on the provinces but usually not the opposite.

If it was upto me department of fisheries and oceans would be fining Montreal every day and any other municipality that's dumping raw sewage in our water ways, a 1st world country shouldn't be beyond proper waste water treatment

 

[Good2Golf]

…British Columbians’ attitude towards the rest of Canada would that of bemused disinterest. They have no desire to separate but view the going’s on in the rest of the country no different as those to the south of us.

Until they feel it’s time to complain about high gas prices and how they’re being gouged by their neighbouring provinces…

 

[Halifax Tar]

British Columbians’ attitude towards the rest of Canada would that of bemused disinterest. They have no desire to separate but view the going’s on in the rest of the country no different as those to the south of us.

I would argue that's pretty similar to just about every region of this country.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Western separation is highly unlikely, more so than QC separation.

A separating entity would decide its own laws and could erase the board and start over if it wanted to, presumably trying to avoid repeating Canadian mistakes. Canada, for itself, would have to decide what to do about its citizens and their claims under Canadian laws and programs.

 

[Good2Golf]

Western separation is highly unlikely, more so than QC separation.

A separating entity would decide its own laws and could erase the board and start over if it wanted to, presumably trying to avoid repeating Canadian mistakes. Canada, for itself, would have to decide what to do about its citizens and their claims under Canadian laws and programs.

…as well as decide if it wanted to allow the separating state to have any input into canadian fiscal policy, should the separating state desire to continue using Canadian currency vice establishing its own central currency. The re’s no guarantee (nor should there be) that a separate state would have any say in Canada’s monetary policies. Said state could very well be along for the ride, as it were. It could, of course, choose to align itself with another nation’s central currency: USD, RMB, GBP, etc…

 

[ModlrMike]

It's not just western alienation though. It's a concentration on all urban ridings, at the expense of rural. MPs that bring in the bucks and the votes are focused on. By way of example, in the current cabinet, on 3 of the 37 members are from what could be described as rural ridings. However if you look at riding sizes, AB has the largest populations (avg 119623) verses ON (avg 111145) as an example, then the narrative looses steam, and it becomes more about winning, and staying in power, than it does about governing. It is a truth in our system that the Liberals need QC in order to win, where the Conservatives do not.

 

[OldSolduer]

Western separation is highly unlikely

A separating entity would decide its own laws and could erase the board and start over if it wanted to, presumably trying to avoid repeating Canadian mistakes. Canada, for itself, would have to decide what to do about its citizens and their claims under Canadian laws and programs.

First point I absolutely agree.

Second point - IF Western Canada actually separated how long do you think it would be before the USA decided Western Canada ( I presume we are speaking of Alberta and Saskatchewan) should be annexed to the USA as the 51st state?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Probably never. Democrats and Republicans might view SK as a state which toggles between D and R senators and elects some D congress members, but would probably view AB as a state which would reliably provide a R senator and mainly R congress members. Republicans might pursue that deal; Democrats not.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Liberals block bid to force campaign strategist to testify about MPs' budgets​

Liberals block bid to force campaign strategist to testify about MPs' budgets

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's Liberals successfully blocked an opposition bid Monday to force one of the party's chief campaign strategists to testify about IT contracts paid for out of the taxpayer-funded budgets of Liberal MPs.

After dragging out a two-hour ethics committee meeting for more than five hours, Liberal MP Brenda Shanahan abruptly moved to adjourn the meeting, which was called to discuss summoning testimony from Tom Pitfield, a longtime friend of Trudeau who ran the Liberals' digital operations during the 2015 and 2019 elections.

"Today, the Trudeau Liberals blocked an investigation into Liberal MPs using taxpayer dollars to subsidize their political operations," said Conservative ethics critic Michael Barrett, who had tabled a motion to call Pitfield to testify.

"More transparent government"

​

 

[Altair]

Liberals block bid to force campaign strategist to testify about MPs' budgets​

Liberals block bid to force campaign strategist to testify about MPs' budgets

"More transparent government"

​

I didn't know the Liberals had the ability to block investigations on their own in a minority.

 

[Jarnhamar]

They experience being a minority government differently.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If the west including BC separated, they could easily go it alone. The indigenous issue would be a sticky one with Reserves remaining as Federal land, however most of the Provinces have a lot more experience in FN consultations than Ottawa ever did. I would see the FN getting better resource deals , while retaining federal monies at the same time. All Status Indians would in essence by automatic dual citizens. The problem for indigenous groups if Quebec separates is they know they be screwed over by Quebec nationalists and likely will not go along with it.
One plus side for Ottawa is the Federal fleets all moves east. Meaning Canada no longer needs 15 CSC. Negotiations would have to happen around other Federal lands. Western Canada would stand up a defense force and likely a armed Coast Guard combining CCG/naval and fisheries roles. They would be asking the US to provide defense of North America. Possibly allowing US fighters and ASW patrol aircraft to operate out of Comox.
Trade would continue as is, but there would be a subtle realignment with US markets that would grow after time.

 

[brihard]

If the west including BC separated, they could easily go it alone. The indigenous issue would be a sticky one with Reserves remaining as Federal land, however most of the Provinces have a lot more experience in FN consultations than Ottawa ever did. I would see the FN getting better resource deals , while retaining federal monies at the same time. All Status Indians would in essence by automatic dual citizens. The problem for indigenous groups if Quebec separates is they know they be screwed over by Quebec nationalists and likely will not go along with it.
One plus side for Ottawa is the Federal fleets all moves east. Meaning Canada no longer needs 15 CSC. Negotiations would have to happen around other Federal lands. Western Canada would stand up a defense force and likely a armed Coast Guard combining CCG/naval and fisheries roles. They would be asking the US to provide defense of North America. Possibly allowing US fighters and ASW patrol aircraft to operate out of Comox.
Trade would continue as is, but there would be a subtle realignment with US markets that would grow after time.

That’s certainly an interesting set of assumptions. The “joined at the wallet” approach WRT the indigenous sounds almost Québécois in its casual expectation of both having and eating its cake. And when a particular First Nation, sitting on a bunch of oil, looks at the new Prairie Canada with which it has no Supreme Court and legislatively recognized treaties, and says “no thanks, we’re good” and elects to remain part of Canada- what then?

 

[daftandbarmy]

If the west including BC separated, they could easily go it alone. The indigenous issue would be a sticky one with Reserves remaining as Federal land, however most of the Provinces have a lot more experience in FN consultations than Ottawa ever did. I would see the FN getting better resource deals , while retaining federal monies at the same time. All Status Indians would in essence by automatic dual citizens. The problem for indigenous groups if Quebec separates is they know they be screwed over by Quebec nationalists and likely will not go along with it.
One plus side for Ottawa is the Federal fleets all moves east. Meaning Canada no longer needs 15 CSC. Negotiations would have to happen around other Federal lands. Western Canada would stand up a defense force and likely a armed Coast Guard combining CCG/naval and fisheries roles. They would be asking the US to provide defense of North America. Possibly allowing US fighters and ASW patrol aircraft to operate out of Comox.
Trade would continue as is, but there would be a subtle realignment with US markets that would grow after time.

And then you ditch the NEP, and other leech like amd largely one-way benefits programs with Ottawa, and create the 'Cascadia Economic Zone' with near limitless natural resources connected seamlessly to one of the biggest manufacturing, hi tech and consumer markets on earth.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I didn't know the Liberals had the ability to block investigations on their own in a minority.

It's partly in how the committees are stacked, and partly how they play the "fine print" rules.